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Poker Legislation & PPA Discussion hosted by Rich Muny Discussions of various poker-related laws and steps players can take to push for better laws.

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Old 03-23-2007, 12:49 AM   #101
Tornado69
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

2 things, Qbert80, could you please post or msg me the # of that accountant you called I would like to call her myself and ask a few question. 2nd, for those of you paying taxes, what can/have you written off ? Say you make 80k a year online, then maybe 10k a year playing live. What have you written off ? Can you write off a vehicle with gas + insurance because you play live ? If you were to make a poker table could you write off all those things bought to build it ? Part of your mortgage ?
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Old 03-24-2007, 03:16 PM   #102
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

i'm starting to make upper 5 figures... do you feel that i should pursue CCPC . I perosnally don't mind paying taxes as it gives back to a society that i reap benefits from. Im jsut not in to paying 31% marginal taxrate when I am risking so much more than others to gain my income.
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Old 03-25-2007, 08:08 PM   #103
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

It is something worth considering - it really depends on individual circumstances.
There are costs to doing it and it takes some analysis to see if it is right for you.
When you are past 80k or so, it may be useful.
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Old 03-25-2007, 08:13 PM   #104
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

You can write off all costs of earning the poker income -
internet connection costs if you use it substantially for playing online, the % of your mortgage interest (plus proprty taxes and maintenance) that relates to the footage used exclusively for playing, any books, travel costs (vehicle only if pretty much used only for playing, otherwise just mileage), software, laptop if used exclusively for playing, subscriptions, accounting costs, bank fees if you use a separate account, etc.

That is why the tax bite may not be as significant as some think.
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Old 03-27-2007, 03:12 AM   #105
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Sorry for the bump, but hoping TCFE can answer a quick question.
I'm a student (accounting student, actually, so I should probably know this).
I've made some money off of poker/casino this year, and its nowhere near what some in this thread are making, and I'm pretty sure I'd still be below the basic allowance w/ both my employment and online income.
Should I be declaring this?
And where would I declare it as non-taxable income.
Any help would be great.
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Old 03-27-2007, 12:16 PM   #106
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

That's almost a definite no.
If you're not doing it to sustain yourself, you don't need to claim it. The actual amount made isn't an issue.
It's either business income or nothing, and if it doesn't fall into the category of business income, then it won't be taxable.
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Old 03-29-2007, 11:46 PM   #107
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

I read the response above mine, but my situation is a bit different, so I was looking for some specific advice.

I'm normally a full-time student, but I have taken this Jan-April semester off (I'm still registered at the school, I just have no classes). However, I will be returning to full-time status in September and maintaining it until I graduate. I'm hoping to make 100k+ this year playing poker online, and I have no other income.

Any idea if I'll have to pay taxes, or does being a student cover me here? Thanks.
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Old 03-30-2007, 03:31 AM   #108
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:
I read the response above mine, but my situation is a bit different, so I was looking for some specific advice.

I'm normally a full-time student, but I have taken this Jan-April semester off (I'm still registered at the school, I just have no classes). However, I will be returning to full-time status in September and maintaining it until I graduate. I'm hoping to make 100k+ this year playing poker online, and I have no other income.

Any idea if I'll have to pay taxes, or does being a student cover me here? Thanks.
100k???
Pay your freakin' taxes.
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Old 03-30-2007, 11:33 AM   #109
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:
Quote:
I read the response above mine, but my situation is a bit different, so I was looking for some specific advice.

I'm normally a full-time student, but I have taken this Jan-April semester off (I'm still registered at the school, I just have no classes). However, I will be returning to full-time status in September and maintaining it until I graduate. I'm hoping to make 100k+ this year playing poker online, and I have no other income.

Any idea if I'll have to pay taxes, or does being a student cover me here? Thanks.
100k???
Pay your freakin' taxes.
Yeah we need to help support the government in their upcoming campaign to make online poker illegal. Do you think that enforcing the online poker ban is going to pay for itself? No, us poker players should have to pay to help ban it. Is there any way that I can donate more money to the government to help them with this campaign? I feel like 40% taxation isn't quite enough. Maybe we could start a charity drive here at twoplustwo to help raise money for the cause too.
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Old 03-30-2007, 12:48 PM   #110
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Even if you're a student, you're gonna have to pay taxes on that. The only thing being a student does is give you tuition credits. Students generally don't pay taxes because their income is below the basic allowance.
With no other source of income, I imagine you'll have to pay some sort of tax.
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Old 03-30-2007, 01:07 PM   #111
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

So if you make about the same in your full time job as playing poker part time then you don't need to file? Sorry if this has been asked, but there is alot of conflicting info in this an other threads.
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Old 03-30-2007, 03:20 PM   #112
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

The advice I received was that if you have a fulltime or near-fulltime job, regardless of how much you make playing poker it is considered windfall and is not taxable. What the CRA considers is whether you expect to make a living from poker or if it is a hobby. If you have a job that generates a fulltime income you can claim that poker is a hobby, your job is your income, and not pay tax on your winnings.
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Old 03-30-2007, 03:37 PM   #113
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

I guess my question is better summarized as: Is being a full-time student the same thing as having a full-time job in the eyes of the CRA? And how does my taking of this semester off and only returning to full-time status in Sept affect this?
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Old 04-03-2007, 11:59 AM   #114
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

I'd be very interested in hearing a response to this student question. I'm a full-time student in a 4-year program at a well-known university. Is this equivalent to having a full-time job?
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Old 04-03-2007, 12:15 PM   #115
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

As I said earlier in the thread, the advice I received differs from what Qbert received in the sense that if you make more playing poker than you do at your job, you should claim your winnings. If Poker$ > Employment$, why wouldn't your poker be your principal occupation and your "job" as your pastime?

As a student, you're not earning money; it's not employment. It would be VERY difficult to argue that you're not living on the money you've earned (whether through buying books or beer) ... and if you're playing for a large period of time each day, it will be very difficult to prove that you are not approaching it as a full-time enterprise that is the equivalent of self-employment.

The safest approach would be to pay taxes on it and consult a tax professional to figure out what expenses you can write off.
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Old 04-03-2007, 12:19 PM   #116
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

How should income from bonuses and rakeback be treated?

Could an analogy to AirMiles (which are not taxed AFAIK) be drawn?
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Old 04-03-2007, 12:41 PM   #117
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

I severely doubt they should have preferential treatment.

Rakeback and bonuses have immediate cash value, and does it really matter when you deposit $100, and withdraw $150 whether it came from winning a NL$50 pot, rakeback or a $50 deposit bonus? You still had to "earn" the money through playing poker, no matter how it was given to you.

Party Poker points have a cash value of 1 cent/point, so it would be difficult to argue that this isn't a direct bonus.

The best analogy to AirMiles that you could draw would be the PokerStars FPPs, since they are not directly translatable into cash. However, I am claiming them at about 1.8 cents/point, since I do turn the goods that I receive into cash (through bartering them to friends).
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Old 04-12-2007, 09:09 PM   #118
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

CFE and others, there wasn't really an opinion clearly stated on making money with casino bonuses. With the method I am using I am losing over 80% of the time. It is true that on average I am winning more than I lose but do I have a case to not pay taxes? I am unemployed, making in the high 6 figures.
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Old 05-27-2007, 07:23 PM   #119
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

back to bonuses and rakeback. does anyone have any input about whether bonuses and rakeback are taxable?

if a casino comps someone a hotel room, meal, limo ride, etc., are those "gifts" taxable? what about if they comp cash?

i know nothing about the subject, but it seems to me like rakeback shouldn't be taxable. for example, if the site just charged you 25% less rake instead of giving you 25% of your rake back at the end of the month, the effect would be the same, and those extra earnings would only be taxable with the same caveats as normal winnings. if rakeback is taxable, can we deduct our total rake paid as an expense?

no idea about bonuses. i would think if a site gives you an iPod it wouldn't be taxable, but i know cash is treated differently.

thoughts?
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Old 05-27-2007, 07:31 PM   #120
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

I'm not answering from any level of tax expertise, just common sense.

If you report your winnings at the tables as your income, yes rake is deductable, and you've ALREADY deducted it. If you sit at a table with $50, and leave with $60, I would call that $10 profit. If I paid $2 rake during that session, I actually made $12 before the rake. I've effectively deducted the rake already. Since I've deducted the rake, it only makes sense to me that rakeback would be taxable.
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Old 05-27-2007, 07:43 PM   #121
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:
I'm not answering from any level of tax expertise, just common sense.

If you report your winnings at the tables as your income, yes rake is deductable, and you've ALREADY deducted it. If you sit at a table with $50, and leave with $60, I would call that $10 profit. If I paid $2 rake during that session, I actually made $12 before the rake. I've effectively deducted the rake already. Since I've deducted the rake, it only makes sense to me that rakeback would be taxable.
right, that all makes sense if you're in a situation where your winnings are taxable. in that situation i agree that winnings + rakeback should be taxed.

however, what if your poker winnings aren't taxable? should your rakeback payments be taxable then? and as a follow up, since we didn't deduct rake as an expense against our winnings, can we now deduct it against rakeback?
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Old 05-27-2007, 07:48 PM   #122
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:
Quote:
I'm not answering from any level of tax expertise, just common sense.

If you report your winnings at the tables as your income, yes rake is deductable, and you've ALREADY deducted it. If you sit at a table with $50, and leave with $60, I would call that $10 profit. If I paid $2 rake during that session, I actually made $12 before the rake. I've effectively deducted the rake already. Since I've deducted the rake, it only makes sense to me that rakeback would be taxable.
right, that all makes sense if you're in a situation where your winnings are taxable. in that situation i agree that winnings + rakeback should be taxed.

however, what if your poker winnings aren't taxable? should your rakeback payments be taxable then? and as a follow up, since we didn't deduct rake as an expense against our winnings, can we now deduct it against rakeback?
I wouldn't think rakeback would be taxable if your poker winnings weren't, but I couldn't say for certain.

You calculate your winnings without deducting rake? In other words, you add your rake paid back in to your winnings?
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Old 05-27-2007, 07:53 PM   #123
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'm not answering from any level of tax expertise, just common sense.

If you report your winnings at the tables as your income, yes rake is deductable, and you've ALREADY deducted it. If you sit at a table with $50, and leave with $60, I would call that $10 profit. If I paid $2 rake during that session, I actually made $12 before the rake. I've effectively deducted the rake already. Since I've deducted the rake, it only makes sense to me that rakeback would be taxable.
right, that all makes sense if you're in a situation where your winnings are taxable. in that situation i agree that winnings + rakeback should be taxed.

however, what if your poker winnings aren't taxable? should your rakeback payments be taxable then? and as a follow up, since we didn't deduct rake as an expense against our winnings, can we now deduct it against rakeback?
I wouldn't think rakeback would be taxable if your poker winnings weren't, but I couldn't say for certain.

You calculate your winnings without deducting rake? In other words, you add your rake paid back in to your winnings?
what i do practically isn't necessarily relevant when it comes to taxes.

the reason i'm asking about deductions and things is i'm wondering if there's a difference between the following two scenarios from a tax standpoint (again assuming the player's winnings aren't taxable):

1) player has a deal to pay no rake on a site.

2) player pays rake, but gets 100% of his rake back at the end of the month.

to me, the scenarios should be the same, meaning if the 100% rakeback payment is taxable then we should be able to deduct our rake as an expense so that it's equivalent to scenario 1). does that make sense?
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Old 05-27-2007, 08:27 PM   #124
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:
what i do practically isn't necessarily relevant when it comes to taxes.

the reason i'm asking about deductions and things is i'm wondering if there's a difference between the following two scenarios from a tax standpoint (again assuming the player's winnings aren't taxable):

1) player has a deal to pay no rake on a site.

2) player pays rake, but gets 100% of his rake back at the end of the month.

to me, the scenarios should be the same, meaning if the 100% rakeback payment is taxable then we should be able to deduct our rake as an expense so that it's equivalent to scenario 1). does that make sense?
OK, I see where you're going with this now.

I think what you're missing is that the rake is already deducted from your winnings. Let's run a scenario through your two examples. Let's say you play for an hour, joining a table with $50 and you make $12, and that the rake for this time period worked out to be $2.

1) You pay no rake, so you leave the table with $62, and should be paying tax on your $12 profit.

2) You pay the $2 rake, so you leave the table with $60, giving you $10 to pay taxes on. You also get 100% rakeback of $2, so you are paying tax on $12 (10+2).

There is no need to deduct the rake, it came off your income in the first place. You pay the same tax in each scenario.
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Old 05-27-2007, 09:23 PM   #125
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:

OK, I see where you're going with this now.

I think what you're missing is that the rake is already deducted from your winnings. Let's run a scenario through your two examples. Let's say you play for an hour, joining a table with $50 and you make $12, and that the rake for this time period worked out to be $2.

1) You pay no rake, so you leave the table with $62, and should be paying tax on your $12 profit.

2) You pay the $2 rake, so you leave the table with $60, giving you $10 to pay taxes on. You also get 100% rakeback of $2, so you are paying tax on $12 (10+2).

There is no need to deduct the rake, it came off your income in the first place. You pay the same tax in each scenario.
notice i mentioned the player does not pay tax on his winnings. meaning in the first case, he pays nothing.

in the second case, he definitely does not pay tax on the $10... what i'm wondering about is the $2.
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