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Poker Legislation & PPA Discussion hosted by Rich Muny Discussions of various poker-related laws and steps players can take to push for better laws.

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Old 03-26-2017, 10:32 PM   #2751
ItsOnlyChips
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

^ interesting, thx for the info
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Old 03-28-2017, 11:23 AM   #2752
Mossberg
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

I'm guessing the AI would determine that almost every poker-related case is non-taxable (based on the real world data it would be basing its predictions on). In any case, it's very cool to see you at the forefront of innovation in your industry, Mr. Alarie. Good luck with the venture, and thanks for keeping us updated.
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Old 03-28-2017, 08:03 PM   #2753
TaxGuru
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mossberg View Post
I'm guessing the AI would determine that almost every poker-related case is non-taxable (based on the real world data it would be basing its predictions on). In any case, it's very cool to see you at the forefront of innovation in your industry, Mr. Alarie. Good luck with the venture, and thanks for keeping us updated.
Thanks for the kind words. In back testing real cases, the AI correctly predicts the vast majority correctly, including where taxpayers are found to be taxable.

The new functionality is expected to go live on March 31.

If anyone's accountant or lawyer is interested, give them this link and they can request a trial account:

http://gettaxnetpro.com/tax-foresight
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Old 04-26-2017, 03:36 AM   #2754
DJSpinThat
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

Hi. Im hoping for some insight,

1. Does every canadian online poker player who grinds full time declare an income of zero and claim that they were unemployed year after year?

2. Say they are successful and has a ton of withdrawals to their bank account and total in the range of high 5-6 figures every year, they still declare zero? (won't that cause problems if you're asked how you pay for your rent/car/food etc.)

3. or instead of zero do you claim the minimum amount ($11,474) even though you clearly have way more deposits to your bank account?

4. Say you win mid six figures to a million from a spin and go or a tournament and you withdrawal that to your bank account. For that year you still declare an amount of zero or.. ? (because its considered a windfall)

Thank you.
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Old 05-11-2017, 12:50 AM   #2755
DoTheMath
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Re: Canadian Online Poker Tax Thread

IANAL & TINLA

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Originally Posted by DJSpinThat View Post
Hi. Im hoping for some insight,

1. Does every canadian online poker player who grinds full time declare an income of zero and claim that they were unemployed year after year?
Nobody knows the answer to that question. Undoubtedly some grinders do that. Some may not file a return. Some may declare income from other sources (interest, dividends, capital gains, support payments...). Some may actually declare business income from poker.

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Originally Posted by DJSpinThat View Post
2. Say they are successful and has a ton of withdrawals to their bank account and total in the range of high 5-6 figures every year, they still declare zero? (won't that cause problems if you're asked how you pay for your rent/car/food etc.)
If you are not in the business of poker - if you are not a professional player - then as long as you can show how you came by the money if you are audited, you will probably be OK. A problem could arise if the CRA didn't believe your true evidence.or if, on review of the evidence, they decided it supported a reasonable conclusion that your net poker winnings were income from a source which was a business in poker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJSpinThat View Post
3. or instead of zero do you claim the minimum amount ($11,474) even though you clearly have way more deposits to your bank account?
I think this would be unwise. If you are making business income from poker, lying about the amount you make would be an offence. Whether you have to declare anything rests on a question of fact. Are your winnings windfalls or are they business income? The amount you have to declare is either 0 or the net business income (net winnings less expenses).

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJSpinThat View Post
4. Say you win mid six figures to a million from a spin and go or a tournament and you withdrawal that to your bank account. For that year you still declare an amount of zero or.. ? (because its considered a windfall)

Thank you.
You do not have to declare windfalls. It may be possible for a tournament win to be windfall, but your cash game net winnings to be business income.

It has been repeatedly, and IMO incorrectly, claimed in this thread that the Radonjic case established that poker winnings were not taxable in Canada. The Radonjic case didn't even address that question. Rather it dealt with the narrow issue of whether the Minister of Revenue reached a reasonable decision when Radonjic's request for an adjustment (to remove previously declared poker winnings from his income in past years) was denied. The learned judge ruled that the decision was not within the range of reasonable decisions, given the evidence and argument put before the Minister. He also implied that it was unlikely that the Tax Court would have found that Radonjic's net poker winnings were business income had the same evidence and arguments been presented to it. There was no implication that Radonjic would not be found to have business income if other evidence and arguments had been presented, and there was no direct suggestion that business income from poker winnings was not taxable.

Since that case, an unknown number of other taxpayers have received adjustments based on applications similar to Radonjic's request for an adjustment.

It would seem to be uncontested law that net poker winnings that are business income are still taxable. The question is where to draw the line between windfall and business income. CRA has to date been unsuccessful in their few attempts in court to show that a person claiming that their poker winnings did not constitute income from a gambling business was wrong. They have recently been unsuccessful in similar cases involving other forms of gambling. The problem seems to be that the court has never been presented with true evidence that clearly approached the high bar of proving the gambling activity being that of a business, and therefore the court has not had to pronounce clearly on where that bar lies. As a result of this legal situation, and the limited investigative and enforcement resources of the CRA, some people suggest that a person who doesn't declare net gambling proceeds as business income stands a high chance of having their tax return being assessed as claimed, or at worst, passing a review or audit.

Last edited by DoTheMath; 05-11-2017 at 01:06 AM.
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