ive seen a lot of incompetence at the rio (and the wynn and bellagio) but never anything this downright shady.

sounds like the floorman was very possibly in on it. should have definitely snapcalled the ngc, they love this kind of stuff and would have fried the floorman for sure.

The company accidently gives you money (or at least extra EV) that's not part of their product. When you buy sth at the supermarket and get too much change, not giving it back is at least very similar to stealing and clearly unethical imo. Many ppl justify it to themselfs by saying it's the casinos/cashiers business to not make that mistake and especially in the casino case general opinion is that they are "rich and evil" anyways. Truth is it's basically still stealing (as I said earlier it's stealing small amounts from many diffrent ppl - basically everyone that ownes part of the casino or shares etc.). If you don't like the product the casino is selling don't buy it -> don't go there in the first place.

Edit: If the casino makes a mistake that you see (if you don't see it nothing's gonna happen in either case) you will usually get refunded for it and have the gaming comission on your site if not.

i don't think it's all that unethical to just check/check back river, which is by far the most likely course of action after the flush hit while you have two diamonds in your hand, and then rolling over your hand confidently saying "flush" so that others muck and then if it gets noticed, which it probably will, you can add something to the effect of, "i didn't see the flush card was also in my hand, just that i made a flush so i didn't bet." nobody at your table, or rather anyone outside of the elitist 2p2 community for that matter, would have an ethical qualm with you doing this. the edge you gain by knowing about this card is pretty negligible in most people's eyes, but the important part is everyone's going to agree that the edge you gained was totally negated by just checking it down. there's a chance it doesn't get noticed, a chance the dealer/other players don't call floor, admittedly very, very small, and a decent chance the floor rules everyone else mucked so the pot's yours.

i think that thinking that they're going to do anything about the other pot you lost or anything but just pull back the chips in this pot is very naive and you can't blame that guy for leaving.

****, i'd probably take this line at my regular game too since the chances the floor doesn't get called or that you get rewarded the pot by the floor are way higher, and the chance your seen as scummy remains very low. wtf is going on with this thread? i think people saying "you should bet" have skewed everyone elses viewpoints into "holy **** you can't bet you gotta call the floor now!" just check! it seems obvious!

disagree it's very likely the floorman was in on it. floormen are probably generally not in on that type of ****. plus the dealer would have to be as well as other players, but i do agree you should have snapcalled the ngc after they don't count the deck, and explain in a loud, calm voice that other tables should go back to play while we wait on a ruling from the NGC.. don't know if i would have thought of this in-game though.

does the NGC even have a 24hr hotline? the hand occurred at 4 am

If this story is true, OP your honest is very good.

However, i dont think tryinf to get your money back off the quads guy will wash. For a start it didnt involve the jack of diamonds .. and how far do you go bacj? What if theyve played a 1000 hands with that deck

He isn't trying to get his money back from the quads hand, he is trying to use the quads hand as a justification to take advantage of the situation that is now in his favor with the two jack of diamonds hand. I think the post would have been better had he not said anything at all about the quads hand as the only purpose it serves is to explain that by not taking advantage of his opportunity to do something scummy he is getting free rolled by anyone else who is, but I think most already understood that. Being a scumbag under the excuse of "other people would do it too" isn't right in life or poker, even though not being a scumbag always means you are getting free rolled in both, at least in the short term.

well, I don't see how the T high flush with the duplicate board card is the nuts on that board...

but that being said, I would've returned bright and early to lodge a formal protest with the top primetime floorman, and/or the chief of gaming or whatever, head honcho guy. They could've looked at the tapes. I might also have gotten a few phone numbers from others at the table.

It seems like the floorman could've resolved the issue on the spot, maybe rolling it back and disavowing that pot, but I'm not sure what they do in those situations. It might've been just a wonky deck, a fluke, or some kind of cheating. But what about all the pots since that deck entered the mix? How do you straighten it all out? Probably, it's impossible, and expecting them to just refund your pot that you lost might be unrealistic.

The next day, however, I don't know, you can at least make a protest and maybe they even it out a bit for you, maybe get some comps or something, I don't know.

I'd be pissed though. The odds of getting top fullhouse beaten by quads is somewhat astronomical, and the odds against having your hole card duped on the board are like several orders of magnitude greater. The odds of both occurring within two hands of each other are not likely to be a coincidence.

I thought the automatic shufflers counted the deck every hand. Is this not true? Or did they not have the auto shuffler?

This man, you got boned

would say that decks which are not true are more likely to be the cause of cheating then being 'innocent' mistakes. while b is unlikely, the post quoted above this one indicates the op's worst nightmare --- cheating at its worst form through complex collusion involving the dealer. but can this complex set up even exist at the rio? If so what are the chances that a sloppy error occur ...where the same card can show up twice to a player not in on the cheating. Any dealer who would have to be involved in the cheating must be aware of how bad that would have to look as they are somewhat partially responsible.

The rio does not use automatic shufflers and very skilled trained dealers can maybe rig decks or at least set them up in a +EV fashion. Can anyone speak more on this?


tell us some more info about this rio floorman? do you remember a name? what did he look like? enough people harassing and complaining can make sure this floorman pays for his misconduct in handling this situation because he certainly comes off looking terrible from your account of the situation.

i agree, i go back and try and get the floor guy who pocketed the cards fired.. clearly undermines the integrity of the game

also security should 100% review the tapes and investigate

if they refuse to do this i am calling gaming commision and bad-mouthing RIO to everyone i can find

since this is during WSOP bad publicity can cost them 5K in a heartbeat

you have leverage - if you went up the chain i wouldnt be surprised if they did give you your buy-in vouchers or free tournament entries or something just to keep you quiet

also you can contact some of the more prominent WSOP tournament players to also raise the profile of this

I am happy you shared this story. As a restaurant business owner, I have numerous customers who will come in and chat about cards from time to time during their lunch breaks. I will certainly share this story with my regulars and warn them about the Rio (and family) casinos.

Whether it was a legit cooler or there were seven 6's in the deck, Rio management has failed to do right by pocketing the deck without counting 52 cards. This just builds a shady atmosphere with unanswered questions looming over the casino's integrity. And all at an uncapped, higher stakes table!

Good luck with your future visits in the ring-games.

Gaming has agents on call 24 hours per day. When a dispute representing more than $600 occurs, it is the casino's responsibility to notify Gaming. That means - assuming OP explained his dispute to Rio staff as he explains to us - they should have called Gaming on themselves.

WSOP is frankly too big to provide a quality product IMO. The raw cost of automatic shufflers (leased for 3 month minimums at $500+ per) would be insane. There are simply not enough competent poker dealers and floorpeople willing to move to LV and work part of the year to sustain the number of cash and tournament tables they offer.

I played in Macau when Hold'Em was first introduced to the market - new dealers, managers and players. The incompetence I see at WSOP was 10x worse than in Macau. I really don't see any reason for players to play cash games at the Rio during WSOP when there are plenty of other places to play in town that employ full-time, well-trained and experienced staff.

I'm sorry but imo u deserve that beat for not standing up for urself and let u get treated like a pussy (which u obv r). I mean ur obviously getting ****ed on and ur just backing up for ur wsop package which again isn't even in danger (caus no manager on earth would let u get kicked out of those events if u keep complaining).
I know I probably sound like the biggest dick writing this; But if u'r honestly such a weak socially awkward person ppl will freeroll u allday. get som selfrespect and confidence. If you know ur doing the right thing do it and **** sake dont be such a damn pussy and back up. funny how no other pokerplayer there stood up for some kid like u

Way more frequently has it been the case that I've thought I had a specific card in my hand when it actually wasn't than was it the case that I knew what two cards I held and one of those cards in my hand happened to fall on the board. The latter has actually never happened. Seems pretty innocent to claim ignorance on that issue.