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The Well: Kingsofcards The Well: Kingsofcards

07-21-2009 , 01:27 PM
A stranger is being shown around a village that he has just become part of. He is shown a well and his guide says "On any day except Wednesday, you can shout any question down that well, and you'll be told the answer" .

The stranger shouts down several questions, and all are answered. The stranger is impressed, and after thinking a minute he shouts down: "Why not on Wednesday?" and the voice from in the well shouts back "Because on Wednesday, it’s your day in the well".


There was some interest for this and I feel like 2p2 and msnl in particular really helped me develop my game so I thought i'd give back a little with a well.

Short back-story for those who don't know who I am. I play primarily on pokerstars as kingsofcards, over the past year and a half I have managed to move up from midstakes to 25/50+. Shout outs to adam001, nutsinho and altrum altus I can honestly say I would have never achieved such a high level of success without such a great group of friends around me.


So yea feel free to ask any questions and i'll do my best to answer them.

Graph just to post a graph I guess
The Well: Kingsofcards Quote
07-21-2009 , 01:30 PM
1. What school did you go to? How many really close friends did you have there? Why did you drop out? Was it the correct decision retrospectively? Would you have done anything different?

2. Thoughts on tournament variance/reynolds being a super hero?

3. Where do you see yourself in 5 years? 10?

4. Who would you rather be stuck on an island with, Joe Hachem or Greg Raymer?

5. ***, Marry, Kill

Clonie Gowen, The hostess from SW, a randomly selected sapphire pool girl from the rio.

Last edited by fees; 07-21-2009 at 01:45 PM.
The Well: Kingsofcards Quote
07-21-2009 , 01:31 PM
How large do you live?

Are you full-time into poker or do you do any philosophical things besides it? I ask this because at some point the money allows you to do whatever you want, so what is your driving force?
The Well: Kingsofcards Quote
07-21-2009 , 01:32 PM
Was it just the worst feeling to break a mill and then downswing?

Congrats, looking forward to this well.

Mark
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07-21-2009 , 01:32 PM
most important thing most SS/MS regulars forget whilst playing
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07-21-2009 , 01:35 PM
what made your game develop most that enabled you to progress through the mid-stakes and break into high-stakes games??

can you give any advice to MSNL'ers in terms of what they need to do in order to be able to break into higher games?
The Well: Kingsofcards Quote
07-21-2009 , 01:44 PM
Great success!!!

What do you think is your #1 attribute in beating the big games?
The Well: Kingsofcards Quote
07-21-2009 , 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nielsio
How large do you live?

Are you full-time into poker or do you do any philosophical things besides it? I ask this because at some point the money allows you to do whatever you want, so what is your driving force?
Well I just got back from las vegas and am now back to living with my parents for the next month or 2 before I head off to travel again. I don't live an overly lavish lifestyle at all. I drive a 30k car and own a 5k watch but I can't really say that I ball up or anything. I guess the driving force for me is that although i've made a lot I feel that I am still a long ways away from long term financial security and that's my overall goal with poker.

Currently poker is the main thing I do. Hopefully in the next couple years I will have made enough where I can go back to college and study in an area I find mentally stimulating. That will probably be psychology or history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOSUP4U
Was it just the worst feeling to break a mill and then downswing?

Congrats, looking forward to this well.

Mark
Thanks, I had made some before this but it was definitely pretty brutal to go on such a big downer and I don't know if ill ever put myself in a position to lose that much ever again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by martin9_90
most important thing most SS/MS regulars forget whilst playing
I think often times ss/ms regulars fall to into what is the "standard" on 2p2 and are unable to think for themselves in spots. Try out some new things, some will fail horribly but most regulars aren't used to seeing more creative lines and when people don't see something very often they tend to make more mistakes when playing against it. As someone who used to 12-16 table I would recommend that if you play a ton of tables take a few hours a week and just 4-6 table. You'll find that it can help you see the game much more clearly. I was never able to beat higher stakes until I started playing less tables and really started paying attention to how people play and trying to find ways to exploit each regular rather than playing a standardish abc game vs everyone.
The Well: Kingsofcards Quote
07-21-2009 , 02:02 PM
give us a hand you played that brought one of that clearing moments into your game.. where it made "bing" and you understood the game on a bit of a deeper level from there on.. you know
The Well: Kingsofcards Quote
07-21-2009 , 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fees
1. What school did you go to? How many really close friends did you have there? Why did you drop out? Was it the correct decision retrospectively? Would you have done anything different?

2. Thoughts on tournament variance/reynolds being a super hero?

3. Where do you see yourself in 5 years? 10?

4. Who would you rather be stuck on an island with, Joe Hachem or Greg Raymer?

5. ***, Marry, Kill

Clonie Gowen, The hostess from SW, a randomly selected sapphire pool girl from the rio.
1. I first went to Seton Hall in NJ for a year and then I transferred to Kutztown which is a state school in Pennsylvania. I can't say I made any close friends at Seton Hall but I met 3 of my best friends while going to Kutztown and we still chill a lot even though they live 45min to 2 hours away. I dropped out because I didn't like just getting by in college and felt that rather then being mediocre at 2 things i'd rather be good at one. I chose poker and it has worked out nicely. I'm currently really happy with my decision to drop out as I was getting somewhat tired of the college lifestyle and I can always go back if I want to.

2. Tournament variance is pretty sick hopefully someday I cash in a live tournament but until then at least all my friends do well in them. Yea reynolds (altrum) is pretty insane and a really cool guy. I think hes just misunderstood on the internet / likes to be viewed that way. O yea he'll prob just win an ept this year imo.

3. Hopefully 5 years from now I am no longer playing poker full time, have made 4-5 mill more and am beginning to consider what I want to do long term outside of poker. 10 years from now I hope I have moved on to doing something I truly love because I won't have to worry about the financial side of things. Currently i'm not quite decided on what I want to do so I can't quite pinpoint it but in time i'm sure ill figure something out.

4. Raymer. Raymer seems like a nice guy while Hachem seems unable to grasp just how lucky he truly is.

5. Probably kill clonie gowen (dunno she just seems annoying), **** the sapphire pool girl (no stds please), and marry the SW hostess (assuming its the one made the witty comment to altrum about how he should have spent some of the money he spent on his watch on a pair of shoes)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackwilcox
what made your game develop most that enabled you to progress through the mid-stakes and break into high-stakes games??

can you give any advice to MSNL'ers in terms of what they need to do in order to be able to break into higher games?
I lived in a poker house for 6 months with a great group of guys / poker players. We each had different styles and I was able to take bits and pieces from each of their games to establish a more well rounded game. All those sweat sessions and poker discussions during the time I was in that house have paid off hugely. At the time our house was made up of me, adam001, altrum altus and nutsinho. We were all playing 2/4-5/10 and nowadays we all play higher in large part to living together and helping eachother improve. If you're currently playing midstakes and looking to travel I'd definitely try to find a group of players with similar interests to live with. I also made some great friends who I still often call poker friends but they are some of the best friends I have. It was a great experience and I recommend that everyone try it at least once.

To break into higher games I would recommend playing less tables 4-8 and taking more time to analyze your game. I used to go over all my sessions in PT and it helped me realize areas in which I was leaking. Also i'd say just take it slow. When you're trying to move up to the next level only play when the games are great and maybe just play 2 tables of 5/10 along with 4 of 3/6 if 3/6 is your current game. It will allow you to get used to the money and some of the regulars at the next level while limiting variance. Back when I was trying to move up to 5/10 (toughest jump for me other then 10/20 to 25/50) I would constantly be watching the games and it was really helpful since I was playing with better players but they had no idea how I played but I had a pretty good grasp of their games.

Simply put don't be lazy. Truly put in the time and effort to get better and put yourself in the best spots possible and hopefully you'll be able to make it.
The Well: Kingsofcards Quote
07-21-2009 , 02:13 PM
Is this all 6-max nl? When was the majority of your money won? How do rate your plo skills to your nl skills?
The Well: Kingsofcards Quote
07-21-2009 , 02:15 PM
if u've ever played w me what do u think of my game, also judging by my posts/threads, my SN is always ''oldjude''. do u see online poker being as profitable in 5/10 yrs time as it is now without having to become a much much better player?
The Well: Kingsofcards Quote
07-21-2009 , 02:17 PM
no question from me but i just want to say that even though i only did a few coaching sessions with tom, it was totally worth it and definitely has improved about the way i think about the game. i would recommend him to anyone that asked.
The Well: Kingsofcards Quote
07-21-2009 , 02:19 PM
Is NL dead?
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07-21-2009 , 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercyty
Great success!!!

What do you think is your #1 attribute in beating the big games?
I think first and foremost you need to stop caring about the money. When I first started playing 25/50 if I lost 20k in a day it would be a pretty crushing day. Because of this I was often afraid to go with reads and scared money to an extent. The second most important thing for me was being confident in my own game. When I first moved up I was probably good enough to be beating the games but I thought so highly of all my opponents that I would constantly level myself and be taking lines that would help me get to showdown. The different between a mediocre 25/50 reg and a good 5/10 reg is far less then most people would realize.

Quote:
Originally Posted by planB_
give us a hand you played that brought one of that clearing moments into your game.. where it made "bing" and you understood the game on a bit of a deeper level from there on.. you know
2 years ago I was at turningstone in upstate New york with adam001. He was friends with pooruser who at the time was a legend and playing 25/50+ while me and adam were playing 2/4. I remember watching him play someone hu and a player jammed into him on the river and he was like o damn might have to call here (he had K high). He called and was wrong but it definitely got me thinking on a different level then I ever had before. I will try to find a hand or two where someone owned me really hard and it got me thinking about just how good it is possible to be.
The Well: Kingsofcards Quote
07-21-2009 , 02:25 PM
$/hour to get coached?... when i move to MSNL
The Well: Kingsofcards Quote
07-21-2009 , 02:26 PM
you made more then a mill (if you go by a 50k$ salary thats 20 years of work) and you dont consider yourself somewhat set up for life? Thats rather pessimistic!

Also interesting view point on the 4 tables part. I try to beat 5/10 and 10/20 now, (5/10 partly accomplished) and basicly noticed that the difference between 3-5 tables and 5-8 is just huge for me. I wonder tho do you 8 table now? Like when you beat 25/50 4 tabling, you feel that you can beat it 8-10 tabling too? I have this with 2/4 and 3/6, but whenever I 8 table 5/10 i feel im way less +ev then when i would 4 table it.

I guess it has to do with having to change certain aspects of your game for a new limit, and having those aspects hardwired in your subconscious so you can easily do them without using much of your conscious 8 tabling?

also the first half my graph last 6 months looks like your first half so lets hope I can make mine look similar to yours for the 2nd half too!

Last edited by Shizzle12345; 07-21-2009 at 02:33 PM.
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07-21-2009 , 02:28 PM
and your graph is incredibly inspiring.
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07-21-2009 , 02:29 PM
have u had periods where uve grinded massively and periods where uve hardly grinded at all or have u been consistent about the amount of hands u put in each week/month? If youve been non-consistent here how would u say each period (playing loads/ playing somewhat/ barely playing any) has affected ur play?

MASSIVE CG btw, sick effort
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07-21-2009 , 02:33 PM
im really interested to see a post your winrate at each limit.
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07-21-2009 , 02:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lwrunner103
Is this all 6-max nl? When was the majority of your money won? How do rate your plo skills to your nl skills?
Basically all 6 max and full ring.



I'm mediocre at best at plo. I do well when their is a fish in the game and I have a general idea of my equity in spots and how the game works but I can't say i'm very good at all. Its definitely something I plan on improving on in the coming months as i've been dabbling in good 25/50 games on stars.


Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjude
if u've ever played w me what do u think of my game, also judging by my posts/threads, my SN is always ''oldjude''. do u see online poker being as profitable in 5/10 yrs time as it is now without having to become a much much better player?
We havent played enough to really comment. I'd imagine that unless online poker becomes regulated by the US government at least for americans the games will continue to get more difficult over the coming years and the amount of big winners will continue to decrease.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philipsaurus
no question from me but i just want to say that even though i only did a few coaching sessions with tom, it was totally worth it and definitely has improved about the way i think about the game. i would recommend him to anyone that asked.
Thanks phil appreciate that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lwrunner103
Is NL dead?
People aren't straight up giving money away these days but I think the games are still very beatable though less lucrative then the plo games that you crush. Lately it seems like everyone has begun to improve at a much slower rate which I think is good for the games as well.
The Well: Kingsofcards Quote
07-21-2009 , 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fees

5. ***, Marry, Kill

Clonie Gowen, The hostess from SW, a randomly selected sapphire pool girl from the rio.
wait aren't these supposed to be tough?
The Well: Kingsofcards Quote
07-21-2009 , 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser112
$/hour to get coached?... when i move to MSNL
Probably 300-500 an hr varying by my experience with the student / stakes they play / how long term they'd be looking for coaching.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzle12345
you made more then a mill (if you go by a 50k$ salary thats 20 years of work) and you dont consider yourself somewhat set up for life? Thats rather pessimistic!

Also interesting view point on the 4 tables part. I try to beat 5/10 and 10/20 now, (5/10 partly accomplished) and basicly noticed that the difference between 3-5 tables and 5-8 is just huge for me. I wonder tho do you 8 table now? Like when you beat 25/50 4 tabling, you feel that you can beat it 8-10 tabling too? I have this with 2/4 and 3/6, but whenever I 8 table 5/10 i feel im way less +ev then when i would 4 table it.

I guess it has to do with having to change certain aspects of your game for a new limit, and having those aspects hardwired in your subconscious so you can easily do them without using much of your conscious 8 tabling?

also the first half my graph last 6 months looks like your first half so lets hope I can make mine look similar to yours for the 2nd half too!

Its tough with taxes. Having a million dollars after tax is worth something but I dont think its being set for life type thing. I plan to buy a condo in vegas and maybe a house in NJ in the next 6 months to a year but then I just need to get my grind on so I can try and get a couple mill invested. Granted I am pretty pessimistic but I am looking to make enough where if I decided I didn't want to work another day in my life I could do that.

The other day I 14 tabled 5/10 for the first time in a long time and my game definitely plays a bit tighter and I 3b less and miss spots but I still felt like I was playing pretty well. 5-6 tabling is my favorite I find that when I add more tables then that i'll often end up playing really tight at a couple because I pay more attention to some tables then others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser112
and your graph is incredibly inspiring.
thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by klumpskaft
have u had periods where uve grinded massively and periods where uve hardly grinded at all or have u been consistent about the amount of hands u put in each week/month? If youve been non-consistent here how would u say each period (playing loads/ playing somewhat/ barely playing any) has affected ur play?

MASSIVE CG btw, sick effort
A couple years ago I was grinding 100k+ hands a month at 1/2 and 2/4. Over the last 15 months my volume has gradually declined. These days i'd imagine I average about 20-25k hands a month but thats due to me traveling a lot. I'm hoping to settle down and get back into playing 40k+ hands a month this fall.

I tend to play pretty consistently on a day to day basis the amount of hands just varies based on the games that run while i'm at my computer / my willingness to play lower. I'm going to start playing more on FTP, UB and some euro sites once I settle down a bit so i'll have a wider selection of games to choose from and I hope it will allow me to live a bit more scheduled life.
The Well: Kingsofcards Quote
07-21-2009 , 03:06 PM
How much is your coaching for 2/4-3/6 6max? Do you do any type of profit sharing agreements?

Would you take me as a student?

Also, how much money would you need in order to make your life as some like to call it "Ballin outta control?"

Last edited by 2SHAE; 07-21-2009 at 03:13 PM.
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07-21-2009 , 03:07 PM
1) What do you feel is the main difference in character and personality traits between those who will forever be a mediocre winner in MSNL(but whom probably post a lot on 2p2 and think that they're all that), and those who can progress to HSNL and beat it?

2) For those at the skill level of SSNL(I'm just asking generally speaking not really for myself cos I dont play that), what kind of playing style(s) should they be aiming for that will eventually prepare themselves to progress through MSNL onto HSNL? I'm talking about things such as "dont just fire one bullet, try to fire 2 a large % of the time and know whom & on what board not to 2barrel vs our perceived range or villain's range"... well just something specific that you think is important to learn early on.

3) Where do you see poker is going, someone that has a choice to progress through NL cash, or switch to tournaments because there are more fish, or change to PLO altogether, where are the profits right now and for the next 12-24mths?

4) You have progressed quickly and successfully, what do you see guys a level above you do well that you dont yet? I'm talking about guys like aejones, cts, leatherass, etc? And what do you think they probably dont do as well as those a level above them, eg. durrrr, Galfond, the Dangs, etc?

TY
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