Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Medium Stakes PL/NL Discussions about medium stakes pot-limit and no-limit hold'em (2-4 to 5-10)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-01-2017, 11:19 AM   #1
Andrew Boccia
old hand
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Real Estate Investing in Florida
Posts: 1,530
A strat thread for old times sake

How are we handing the smallblind and big blind (and potentially straddle) when facing a 3bet cold in deepstack NL?

This is a spot that I have never really conquered because most of my play was online with 100BB and 6max where we construct a pretty good preflop equilibrium and it doesn't even come up that much to begin with.

When playing live the stacks get deeper and the impact of the spot is pretty high.

EXAMPLE:

9 handed live game. Assume 2/5NL to 10/20NL if the game conditions matter for your answer.

How are we constructing a 4 bet/coldcall/fold strategy in a live (or online) game out of position when deep.

UTG+1 (300BB) raises to 3x with standard range.
CO (500BB) 3 bets to 12BB.
Hero (500BB) is in big blind with two cards.

Are there any tricks to handling this spot. What is a good "default" GTO approach.

Pretty much I play tighter and more polar but feels awful no matter what.

In such an opponent specific and high impact spot how much would you recommend moving into exploitative play? What would you be looking for to do this?

Spoiler:

Last edited by Andrew Boccia; 02-01-2017 at 11:25 AM.
Andrew Boccia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2017, 05:22 PM   #2
horse84
veteran
 
horse84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: schnitzelkönig
Posts: 2,426
Re: A strat thread for old times sake

sorry mate, msnl doesnt talk strat anymore

but i think your approach looks good. being deep and oop is a spot, we traditionally like to avoid. so i would keep it tight and open up if i have exploitative reasons to justify it.
horse84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2017, 04:30 AM   #3
luvinurmoney
old hand
 
luvinurmoney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,986
Re: A strat thread for old times sake

Hey man, interesting question and these spots are definitely challenging for me as well because most of my play is 100bb 6 max also. I think your approach seems solid. I think live for 4betting I would mostly favor the Ax and like the KQs blockers for 4betting.

And I think the only tweak I would make for flatting is adding 45s, 56s I expect these to do well and most likely better than a6s-a9s. I also imagine all pps get flatted at some % and lower as you go down.

I'm not sure you can go wider than that since calling 11 or 11.5bb is obviously a lot. No idea what the equity realization is here since it's going to be hard to float on many flops since live players typically bet huge when they do bet but the 4bet frequency of UTG+1 should be quite small so we typically get to see a flop.

What's your best guess for a typical live 3betting range for CO, UTG+1 4bet frequency?
luvinurmoney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2017, 08:34 PM   #4
lnternet
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
lnternet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 12,098
Re: A strat thread for old times sake

I think you just 4b large only, no calls, with a frequency around a third of the 3bettors 3bet frequency, with a range like you describe (all 43s+ 55+ hands a bit, but the weaker ones very rarely)

I have nothing to back this up, just my best guess
lnternet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2017, 12:33 AM   #5
luvinurmoney
old hand
 
luvinurmoney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,986
Re: A strat thread for old times sake

Quote:
Originally Posted by lnternet View Post
I think you just 4b large only, no calls, with a frequency around a third of the 3bettors 3bet frequency, with a range like you describe (all 43s+ 55+ hands a bit, but the weaker ones very rarely)

I have nothing to back this up, just my best guess
This is roughly what I do online, learned it from you obviously .

Live you can probably get away with some flatting imo.
luvinurmoney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2017, 11:01 AM   #6
JonIrenicus
See my coaching listing
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 952
Re: A strat thread for old times sake

Quote:
Originally Posted by horse84 View Post
sorry mate, msnl doesnt talk strat anymore
they weren't discussing strategy before either, it was mostly people BSing and pretending to give a true opinion on the hand while doing smth totally different when actually playing that spot themselves.

Now they don't even bother to discuss and lie about it anymore, which is a more honest and less hypocrite thing really.

this is live poker so people might discuss it openly still.
JonIrenicus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 09:44 AM   #7
horse84
veteran
 
horse84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: schnitzelkönig
Posts: 2,426
Re: A strat thread for old times sake

i dont know what ur talking about jonirenicus. i have learned plenty from this forum and the people i met here back in the day and i am sure many others did so aswell.
horse84 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online