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A strat thread for old times sake A strat thread for old times sake
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02-01-2017 , 11:19 AM
#1
Andrew Boccia
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old hand
Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,539
How are we handing the smallblind and big blind (and potentially straddle) when facing a 3bet cold in deepstack NL?

This is a spot that I have never really conquered because most of my play was online with 100BB and 6max where we construct a pretty good preflop equilibrium and it doesn't even come up that much to begin with.

When playing live the stacks get deeper and the impact of the spot is pretty high.

EXAMPLE:

9 handed live game. Assume 2/5NL to 10/20NL if the game conditions matter for your answer.

How are we constructing a 4 bet/coldcall/fold strategy in a live (or online) game out of position when deep.

UTG+1 (300BB) raises to 3x with standard range.
CO (500BB) 3 bets to 12BB.
Hero (500BB) is in big blind with two cards.

Are there any tricks to handling this spot. What is a good "default" GTO approach.

Pretty much I play tighter and more polar but feels awful no matter what.

In such an opponent specific and high impact spot how much would you recommend moving into exploitative play? What would you be looking for to do this?

Spoiler:

I am going to say a mixed strategy of
- 4 bet all combos of AA/KK except a randomly selected set of combos such as double black or double red, etc, to stay uncapped, 4 bet most or all combos of AK, 4 bet a very minor amount of the rest of your hands (like 5-20% of your total combos of QQ JJ TT 99 88 AQs AJs ATs Axs, KQs QJs JTs T9s 98s 87s 76s. Closer to 20% on the higher end of this range, closer to 5% on the lower end of this range?)

- Coldcall the remaining AA/KK/QQ/JJ. A discounted amount of TT-77 and AJs-A5s KQs-76s with minor discounting at the top of this range and major discounting at the bottom of this range?

Would you mix in any other hands for more board coverage? How?

If you play the top of your range, you have the highest hot and cold equity vs opponent but you also have a strategy that is faceup (you would be uncapped on way too many boards) If you play a mixed strategy that includes sometimes folding a hand like JTs (even if its only 1 combo) and sometimes calling or 4 betting a weaker hand like 76s (even if it is only .25 combos,) while intuitive it seems like theoretically this would produce better results in a gameplan but in practice it seems challenging to implement without being biased about it because we are usually pretty binary with our preflop decisions for each hand ranking.

Can anyone improve on this default strategy? How?

Last edited by Andrew Boccia; 02-01-2017 at 11:25 AM.
A strat thread for old times sake Quote
02-04-2017 , 05:22 PM
#2
horse84's Avatar
horse84
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sorry mate, msnl doesnt talk strat anymore

but i think your approach looks good. being deep and oop is a spot, we traditionally like to avoid. so i would keep it tight and open up if i have exploitative reasons to justify it.
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02-12-2017 , 04:30 AM
#3
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luvinurmoney
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Hey man, interesting question and these spots are definitely challenging for me as well because most of my play is 100bb 6 max also. I think your approach seems solid. I think live for 4betting I would mostly favor the Ax and like the KQs blockers for 4betting.

And I think the only tweak I would make for flatting is adding 45s, 56s I expect these to do well and most likely better than a6s-a9s. I also imagine all pps get flatted at some % and lower as you go down.

I'm not sure you can go wider than that since calling 11 or 11.5bb is obviously a lot. No idea what the equity realization is here since it's going to be hard to float on many flops since live players typically bet huge when they do bet but the 4bet frequency of UTG+1 should be quite small so we typically get to see a flop.

What's your best guess for a typical live 3betting range for CO, UTG+1 4bet frequency?
A strat thread for old times sake Quote
02-13-2017 , 08:34 PM
#4
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I think you just 4b large only, no calls, with a frequency around a third of the 3bettors 3bet frequency, with a range like you describe (all 43s+ 55+ hands a bit, but the weaker ones very rarely)

I have nothing to back this up, just my best guess
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02-14-2017 , 12:33 AM
#5
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luvinurmoney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lnternet
I think you just 4b large only, no calls, with a frequency around a third of the 3bettors 3bet frequency, with a range like you describe (all 43s+ 55+ hands a bit, but the weaker ones very rarely)

I have nothing to back this up, just my best guess
This is roughly what I do online, learned it from you obviously .

Live you can probably get away with some flatting imo.
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02-22-2017 , 11:01 AM
#6
JonIrenicus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horse84
sorry mate, msnl doesnt talk strat anymore
they weren't discussing strategy before either, it was mostly people BSing and pretending to give a true opinion on the hand while doing smth totally different when actually playing that spot themselves.

Now they don't even bother to discuss and lie about it anymore, which is a more honest and less hypocrite thing really.

this is live poker so people might discuss it openly still.
A strat thread for old times sake Quote
03-03-2017 , 09:44 AM
#7
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horse84
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i dont know what ur talking about jonirenicus. i have learned plenty from this forum and the people i met here back in the day and i am sure many others did so aswell.
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