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Set on a monotone flop Set on a monotone flop

03-19-2017 , 09:16 PM
    Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37683250

    BTN: $5 (100 bb)
    Hero (SB): $11.69 (233.8 bb)
    BB: $5 (100 bb)
    UTG: $4.96 (99.2 bb)
    MP: $5.07 (101.4 bb)
    CO: $5 (100 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with 5 5
    2 folds, CO raises to $0.15, BTN folds, Hero calls $0.13, BB folds

    Flop: ($0.35) 5 K 4 (2 players)
    Hero bets $0.30, CO calls $0.30

    Turn: ($0.95) T (2 players)
    Hero bets $0.70, CO calls $0.70

    River: ($2.35) 2 (2 players)
    Hero bets $10.54 and is all-in, CO calls $3.85 and is all-in




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    Villain is 22/18 over 240 hands.

    I know my preflop call from the SB is questionable, but the BB was extremely passive pre (PFR = 7) and I didn't 3bet, because villain has Fv3b stat = 33, so pretty low.

    Flop I decided to donk, because I didn't want to let him draw for free, and to get value from AK, KQ, maybe even aces with the ace of hearts. River I wanted my hand to look like a busted flush draw. Was I only getting called by better?
    Set on a monotone flop Quote
    03-19-2017 , 09:31 PM
    Quote:
    but the BB was extremely passive pre (PFR = 7)
    This is so far down on the list of reasons why we'd prefer to 3-bet or fold this hand in this situation. Now if bb was like 65/7, then go ahead and flat but outside of a total whale, it's a bad flat.

    You flat pre. You then donk because you don't want him to take a free card but don't you think he's going to bet these hands (AhQx, AxQh, AhAx, etc, etc.)? By betting, you prevent him from bluffing. By donking, he gets to control the size of the pot by being in position and had you c/r'ed (if he had bet) you can just blow the size of the pot up in spite of not being in position.

    Turn is whatever.
    River I don't even know what to make of. Do we really think this guy is calling < 555 to a near 2x pot jam?
    Set on a monotone flop Quote
    03-19-2017 , 09:46 PM
    I agree that this was a bad flat pre, and I agree that I should have check-raised flop instead of donking.

    But I don't know if I agree that he doesn't call with worse. I think he does call with AK, AA, KT, and 44 and that's 33 combos.
    Set on a monotone flop Quote
    03-19-2017 , 09:58 PM
    I didn't say he was folding those hands. Like I said, I don't know what to make of it. I don't know how to establish the "calling two donk bets and then calling 2x pot overbet otr" range so I'm just dumbfounded. Sounds like you're convinced though, so there's your answer.
    Set on a monotone flop Quote
    03-19-2017 , 11:33 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by maka2020
    [converted_hand][hand_history]
    River I wanted my hand to look like a busted flush draw. Was I only getting called by better?
    From the flop onwards, your hand looks exactly like what it is: something that is strong or very strong and does not want to get drawn out on. If he can somewhat put you on something, it is most probably 44, 55, or (sometimes) 6h7h or some flush + gutshot combo.

    The villain is 22/18 over 240 hands, so I'm assuming he is not a total fish. He seems like he can maybe fold Kx when you make a river bet of that size.

    In fact he also probably has 240 hands on you so he knows how aggro you are. If the thinks you're not a reckless maniac, the river overbet is a disaster. If he thinks you're the kind who will overbet shove the river with the Ah, you can maybe make this play to balance yourself.

    Even then, 240 hands is not a lot to convince him that you're capable of this. More often than not, he will fold exactly everything that 55 beat and get called by better.

    The sicker problem is: if you check river, he shoves, do you call?

    I think you might have to fold! Maybe others can comment.
    Set on a monotone flop Quote
    03-19-2017 , 11:52 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by maka2020
    But I don't know if I agree that he doesn't call with worse. I think he does call with AK, AA, KT, and 44 and that's 33 combos.
    FWIW, I think he raises you with 44 on the flop with high probability. Same thought process as you: strong hand not wanting to get drawn out on. Even AA might raise you sometimes when you donk the flop. AK raises slightly less often than AA and 44 but sometimes that too.
    Set on a monotone flop Quote
    03-20-2017 , 02:41 AM
    pre is bad. AP is fine imo. Actually I'd bet river smaller, like 1.72 so we get closer to breakeven because we don't have a solid read on V
    Set on a monotone flop Quote
    03-20-2017 , 05:01 AM
    Can someone explain to me why flatting pre is bad here? CO raise preflop is fairly wide, and we're set mining. I would have thought the flop is unlucky as we've caught our set but on a monotone board.
    Set on a monotone flop Quote
    03-20-2017 , 05:24 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HuskyHarris
    Can someone explain to me why flatting pre is bad here? CO raise preflop is fairly wide, and we're set mining. I would have thought the flop is unlucky as we've caught our set but on a monotone board.
    With a wide opening range it is hard to create a big pot unless they hit big (2 pair, set, straight etc). We are also OOP so more difficult to play. If we 3B we create a bigger pot when we hit our set, have good fold equity against such a wide range, and gain initiative.
    Set on a monotone flop Quote
    03-20-2017 , 01:57 PM
    Flatting 22-66 from the SB isnt profitable because you have to xf most flops, not to mention when BB squeezes and you don't even get to see a flop. In certain situations you can, i.e. when utg min's and gets 3 callers. When late position opens though I prefer 3bing to calling, as a few others already stated. Those pots are fun when you actually flop a set.
    Set on a monotone flop Quote

          
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