river raise - Page 2 - Medium Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

BalugaWhale · 05-23-2012, 08:03 PM

why is c/f so bad again?

babaar · 05-23-2012, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuddhaMonk187

we dont chk because the board is paired, we check because betting doesnt make sense under most circumstances (like us floating a lot OOP or him being a retard)

Your right ofc. Had a brain fart.

tcorbin16 · 05-23-2012, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BalugaWhale

why is c/f so bad again?

aren't you selling a poker book that explains situations like this?

if I explain, do I get a discount on said book?

BalugaWhale · 05-23-2012, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcorbin16

aren't you selling a poker book that explains situations like this?

if I explain, do I get a discount on said book?

lol corbin i'm always happy to make a deal with you

I'm just curious what you guys think is betting on this river? Hard for him to have bluffs? Hard for him to have worse value hands?

Obviously if he calls with 88 or something here, we should take OP's line and fold to the raise (or call vs some very aggro units).

But, I'm hypothesizing that he neither bets worse value hands nor calls with worse. So, c/f would seem to be the play, provided that hypothesis holds, ya?

Andrew

EDIT: I'm a retard, I thought we made trip 2's lol. These new-fangled hand histories are killin me

DOUBLE EDIT: It's hard to have worse flushes with this line though. So maybe my original post is still okay. Actually I think ya, it probably is.

BalugaWhale · 05-24-2012, 12:06 AM

TRIPLE EDIT: I'd probably c/c vs an unknown too (mossberg makes a good point there), but against a lot of people you could c/f.

shark_fishin · 05-24-2012, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mossberg

Given positions I don't think we should be too excited to get the money AI on the flop. It's clearly +EV to call it off once villain shoves over a 3bet, but we can't be sure that we have much (if any) fold equity on the 3bet, and our equity probably isn't quite good enough to 3bet as if it is for "value."

Obviously 3betting is okay in a vacuum, and it's pretty difficult to compare the EV of 3betting with the EV of calling. With that said, it is my default to flat my entire continuing range vs a flop raise in this spot. If anything, we may be able to get away with only 3betting sets.

Thanks for explaining. I understand.

IMDABES · 05-24-2012, 07:03 AM

I dont even want to play anymore if c/fing a nut flush in that small of a pot on this board is the most optimal line.

Lio Nunez · 05-24-2012, 09:49 AM

Either jam the flop for maximum FE, or as played jam river. easy game

0lespaul3 · 05-24-2012, 10:36 AM

never bet river here dude..for this is exact reason..you put yourself in a real sticky situation....idk y u dont value bet the nutz and build pot on the turn. your losing value..if you were real deep in the tourney with antes and such, i could see taking a check raise line with a known aggressive opponent. but with the tourney just starting, there is no need to even get cute here. stick out a half pot bet and make some chips, and hope he raises...if so obv no problems getting it in. and if he has a set and the board pairs as it does, well thats just unlucky and move on to the next. but checking the nutz here seems silly, ecspecially if you are ranging him on top/middle pairs, and 2 prs or wheel draws, or a hand like 56. BET IT DUDE

as played since you chk turn, and the board paired, early in the tourney this is an easy chk call unless he does something silly like shove..on another note, I have no idea what the buyin is on this tourney. it means a lot.

0lespaul3 · 05-24-2012, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMDABES

I dont even want to play anymore if c/fing a nut flush in that small of a pot on this board is the most optimal line.

lol well said..not to be ugly to the original poster, but this hand was played realllll bad..hey but thats why we post em right! glgl

0lespaul3 · 05-24-2012, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lio Nunez

Either jam the flop for maximum FE, or as played jam river. easy game

lol is this guy for real? lol wtf do we need fold equity for? rofl...wow

shootaa · 05-24-2012, 01:15 PM

Hey I've got to run, but just a friendly Twoplustwo posting tip: if you type in colon "club" colon, then you get

and it will make your hands easier to read in the original post. The same goes for the other suits, obviously!

surfsk869 · 05-24-2012, 05:38 PM

i didnt anticipate this hand to evoke such debate but am pleasantly surprised nonetheless. i appreciate all the advice and do agree my bet on the riv is less than optimal. in retrospect c/c def seems the best. tbh i dont think i could ever get myself to c/f in this spot v an unknown.

surfsk869 · 05-24-2012, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shootaa

Hey I've got to run, but just a friendly Twoplustwo posting tip: if you type in colon "club" colon, then you get

and it will make your hands easier to read in the original post. The same goes for the other suits, obviously!

thanks for the tip

spooner90 · 05-24-2012, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam001

lets evaluate ranges here and go under the assumption that villain isnt a terrible hand reader

your range when you bet 207.50 on river here is a flush+

Villains range when he checks back turn is 3 combos of sets, air, and random pairs that decided it would be better to just raise flop to make hand easier to play. With villains air range, it is extremely unlikely he believes this river spot is a good spot to make a random bluff after he checked back turn and is now only repping a super thin value range vs an obvious bluff catcher.

So I think when you bet river you get called 0% of the time by worse, folds by air, and jammed on by boats, furthermore, when he bets river he is probably always value betting, and you beat 0% of his value range, since he is most certainly not raising flop with a fd and checking back turn when he hits, or making some super thin value bet on river with Tx or JJ if he goes 3/4 pot +. Perhaps if he bet like 1/5th pot on river id consider a call, putting him on making a bad vbet.

Yep