***OFFICIAL July MSNL HOOKER Thread***

[Fritzy]

third possibility it cheats?

[Syous]

how do I look up table draws for the Main ?

[Fritzy]

http://www.pokernews.com/live-report...em-main-event/

[PenelopeCruz]

can someone smarter than me explain how 75s could ever be a fold there from a GTO perspective?

so can you see what it folds or something?? I guess that hand is super fishy I just can't imagine the house actually rigging a game electronically when it has so much to lose.

[morello]

1) Nevada law says that any virtual representation of cards must match the physical version. If the machine is dealing anything other than randomly, someone will be getting fined/going to jail
2) machine cr'd 45dd on a 7d 8d Qh board vs me, and folded to 3bet on flop. I had AQ.
3) roommate played a hand (I witnessed it) where the bot raised, roommate 3b A7s, bot 4b, roommate misclick 5b, and bot folded AQ. Preflop. Insanely terrible play, obviously. It has some weird quirks like this.
4) no one plays 100-200 vs it because every pot over $1200 triggers a WG tax form and this resets the game, which automatically gives the bot the button. Ie game unplayable/unbeatable.
5) people do/are grinding the bot at 20-40 in casinos that award comps. All of the MGM props (aria/bellagio) do not award comps, so any serious player will not be spotted there.
6) despite this I think the bot is tough.

[oldjude]

Originally Posted by morello

1) Nevada law says that any virtual representation of cards must match the physical version. If the machine is dealing anything other than randomly, someone will be getting fined/going to jail
2) machine cr'd 45dd on a 7d 8d Qh board vs me, and folded to 3bet on flop. I had AQ.
3) roommate played a hand (I witnessed it) where the bot raised, roommate 3b A7s, bot 4b, roommate misclick 5b, and bot folded AQ. Preflop. Insanely terrible play, obviously. It has some weird quirks like this.
4) no one plays 100-200 vs it because every pot over $1200 triggers a WG tax form and this resets the game, which automatically gives the bot the button. Ie game unplayable/unbeatable.
5) people do/are grinding the bot at 20-40 in casinos that award comps. All of the MGM props (aria/bellagio) do not award comps, so any serious player will not be spotted there.
6) despite this I think the bot is tough.

this is crazy s***. Gotta love misclicks tho. Had one today that worked out pretty well...

PokerStars - $5 NL (6 max) ZOOM - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: $250.00
SB: $524.00
Hero (BB): $1,802.36
UTG: $267.20
MP: $492.51
CO: $500.00

SB posts SB $2.50, Hero posts BB $5.00

Pre Flop: ($7.50) Hero has J A

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to $12.50, Hero raises to $35.00, SB calls $22.50

Flop: ($70.00, 2 players) 4 8 A
SB checks, Hero bets $445.00, SB raises to $489.00 and is all-in, Hero calls $44.00

Turn: ($1048.00, 2 players) Q

River: ($1048.00, 2 players) 5

SB shows A 3 (One Pair, Aces) (Pre 33%, Flop 18%, Turn 10%)
Hero shows J A (One Pair, Aces) (Pre 67%, Flop 82%, Turn 90%)
Hero wins $1,045.20

[shipit2kg]

syous do u sleep? lol

[FrankShank]

Maybe the machine purposely makes a few rare mistakes to create action.

[nuggetz87]

Originally Posted by FrankShank

Maybe the machine purposely makes a few rare mistakes to create action.

I bet those baby straight flush draw folds are just correct somehow. machine picked up that opponent's flop 3b range is really draw heavy or something.

[Eewert]

Originally Posted by morello

1) Nevada law says that any virtual representation of cards must match the physical version. If the machine is dealing anything other than randomly, someone will be getting fined/going to jail
2) machine cr'd 45dd on a 7d 8d Qh board vs me, and folded to 3bet on flop. I had AQ.
3) roommate played a hand (I witnessed it) where the bot raised, roommate 3b A7s, bot 4b, roommate misclick 5b, and bot folded AQ. Preflop. Insanely terrible play, obviously. It has some weird quirks like this.
4) no one plays 100-200 vs it because every pot over $1200 triggers a WG tax form and this resets the game, which automatically gives the bot the button. Ie game unplayable/unbeatable.
5) people do/are grinding the bot at 20-40 in casinos that award comps. All of the MGM props (aria/bellagio) do not award comps, so any serious player will not be spotted there.
6) despite this I think the bot is tough.

thanks for the info, very interesting.

[Fritzy]

ty morello, I was pretty interested too

[punter11235]

can someone smarter than me explain how 75s could ever be a fold there from a GTO perspective?

1)It could be real GTO fold if for example always flatting checkraises on flop has similar EV to 3betting sometimes (entirely possible) then strategy of 3betting only nut draws could possibly dominate checkraise-calling too many draws so maybe you need to fold that sometimes to avoid being exploited by this (only 3betting nut draws) peculiar strategy.
2)more likely: machine probably couldn't calculate exact GTO; one common technique to walk around today hardware's limitations is to divide hands in buckets and solve GTO for such simplified game. There are many possible ways to divide hands into buckets (straight equity, equity vs strong hands, etc. etc.) if somehow 75s ends up in a bucket with other hands which may want to (sometimes) checkraise-fold then you will see folds for 75s (and for every other hand from this bucket) despite possibley 75s being at the top of given bucket's range.
Probably machine doesn't always fold with 75s there but only sometimes (5%, 2% ?) and it was one of those rare cases.

Obviously all of the above is pure speculation by me

[Mossberg]

Originally Posted by punter11235

Obviously all of the above is based purely on my experience building bots

fyp

[Syous]

Originally Posted by shipit2kg

syous do u sleep? lol

lollll

Every time I've come to Vegas, I've had problems sleeping. Also this thing doesn't get out til 1am and then there's a 20-30 min. taxi line.

For some reason, I only get 3-4 hours of sleep then I just pop awake. I got some advilPM last night and I actually ended up getting like 6-7 hours of sleep today!

Vamoooooooooo

[punter11235]

fyp

Nah, stuff which GTO approximators use is freely available on the internet.
I have no idea how advanced it is right now but from what I gather the only limitation at getting close to real GTO is hardware and that is obviously getting better every year.

I would be truly shocked if decent homemade GTO approximation limit HU AI wouldn't beat humans not to mention tons of other, better techniques out there (see for example Sonya limit bot, which not so long ago was freely available on the internet too).