***The OFFICIAL 2012 Stars Regulars Thread***

[Roger Mainfield]

****ing nanonoko

[krmont22]

Originally Posted by fees

matthewryan got it right, its unusual for fish to win lower and try and take it big. ms and hs games are fueled by people who have money from somewhere else; they are rich, they win live, they win at limit/plo/etc but lose at NL. The most likely case however is that they binked something in a tourny/sng and took it to cash.

This is not true in the slightest. The majority of fish are all on the deposit x amount of money and run it into a bajillion plan. I can't even tell if people are serious anymore.

[krolewicz]

so if they magically miracle xx spots in the row on NL50 so they can shot NL1k is really rake stopping them?

Or maybe you talk about bad shot taking regs that are prolly b/e when they add they rakeback which means they are still taking money from fish?

micros/lowstakes got tougher and due to the ridiculous amount of rake that has to be paid very few are able to win and no money gets up.

yeah, money of winners moving up, thats what we need lol

lima is spot on, remove scout and few others and 90% (me included) is dead

[krmont22]

no they deposit 100 bucks play nl100 double up, move up to nl200, rinse repeat. So people think it's more respectable to take money from a few select people who lose 6-7 figures than actually beat real opponents?

[krolewicz]

its basically the same what I said, but I`ll ask again: you really think its the rake that stop those kind of guys reaching at least midstakes?

the second part; respect & stuff is frankly quite hilarious to me, esp given its 2012

[663366]

There isn't one specific reason why games at MSNL are tougher than they used to be. Lower stakes players not moving up as much as in the past is one reason, and that isn't solely due to high rake at their stakes either.. and of course the economy being bad in U.S. and Europe has a lot to do with the lack of rich fish depositing to play poker these days. The other thing is, of course, the negative publicity surrounding online poker that is causing a lot of recreational gamblers to simply look at other forms of gambling(eg. casino table games) as their current preferred way of throwing away money for fun.

[sirin]

i used to have a fairly large buddy list on a few sites and from keeping an eye on where the fish i had marked were playing it became quite clear that many if not most of the mid/highstakes fish would deposit a few hundred, playing .50/1 or something and try to run it up. it wouldn't be at all uncommon to see a guy lose a buyin or two at 5/10 and the next time you see him he's playing .25/50 or a $50 stt.

[krmont22]

sirin,

Yes. This is exactly what the majority of fish do.

krolewicz,

At small stakes, the rake accounts for about a buyin off the table every 150 hands. This has a huge effect on how quickly they go bust and how likely they are to go on a heater. This is derived directly from their winrates and standard deviations. Those are directly affected by the rake.

[makeit3bets]

is there a way to tell the software to always make a new row of tables when cascading at a certain point instead of shrinking them all the way down first?

[Kanu]

the vast majority of money that goes into a limit gets taken by the regs and the site and a fairly small % of it moves up. It's relatively rare that regs move up and are -EV at the level above (if they are +EV it's not money moving up, they're just another player taking money out the limit above now). Fish running it up is the main way money moves up and by the nature of them being fish this happens a lot less often than they lose it at the stake they originally deposit at. I spoke with someone who works at betfair a while ago and he was saying that it's a common misconception that all the money filters upwards in poker but actually the vast majority of it doesn't. If people are just arguing that some amount moves up then yeah ofc, not very much compared to what is put in though.

[krmont22]

I feel like fish rarely make it to 5/10+, but I do think that a ton of movement happens between the micros up to mid stakes.

[shipit2kg]

"do this, do that"....all of this is predatory in one sense or another, as is the nature of the game. People looking out for their best interests, what about the best interest of the games/poker economy as a whole? shouldn't this override?

derek/lima/iso/clayton/krmont's opinions are most valid...seems they see the big picture.

don't play here, just my 2 cents

[smartalecc5]

You guys realize that the quality of play has increased so much over the past few years tht it has decreased everyones winrate. The fish got cleaned out so quickly now and the edges are so small and the variance so high that pokers becoming less attractive game now.

[smartalecc5]

Originally Posted by shipit2kg

"do this, do that"....all of this is predatory in one sense or another, as is the nature of the game. People looking out for their best interests, what about the best interest of the games/poker economy as a whole? shouldn't this override?

derek/lima/iso/clayton/krmont's opinions are most valid...seems they see the big picture.

don't play here, just my 2 cents

Its like paying taxes in the US. Shouldn't everyone pay more taxes to provide a better infrastructure and help out the future generation?

Self interests overrides group interest almost always.

[shipit2kg]

Your first post is spot on, but your second is a far reaching analogy, these two things have very little in common.