Poker Stars $400.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

MP: $521.99
Hero (CO): $517.65
BTN: $485.21
SB: $438.56
BB: $179.75
UTG: $1064.36

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is CO with 8 T
1 fold, MP raises to $12, Hero calls $12, BTN calls $12, 1 fold, BB calls $8

Flop: ($50.00) 2 Q Q (4 players)
BB checks, MP bets $31.03, Hero ???

Anyone folds here right away? Not closing action, flush draw is low, etc

Fold pre already then.

fold or 3bet pre - if youre gona call preflop i dont see how you can ever fold this flop

I agree w fold pre. Interested to know what most people think about T9s and JTs in teh same sot though.

folding pre, calling flop. as for t9s jts it depends on the btn and the blinds.

btn bb sb have to be rly bad to make this profitable

3bet or fold pre most of the time.

call flop.

I too 3b or fold pre but if for some reason i elected to call, then i am never folding this flop for the simple fact that we get to see a free river a bunch of the time.

call pre. call flop. re - evaluate on turn.

First thing is first: pre-flop is too loose 100bb effective without some other glaring weaknesses in the pre-flop raiser's game and especially in the pre-flop aggression of everyone else yet to act. Flatting such a wide range will get you beat up quickly by any decent line up.

There are arguments for a lot of different flop lines depending on how your opponent plays.

If villain three-bet bluffs flops very often, you could have a profitable flop four-bet shove to complement the value of a semi-bluff raise. This is the most aggressive choice and probably the least likely to be profitable; however, with proper history and opponent, you stand to make quite a bit from the play and do fairly well against a calling range of your shove.

Flatting the flop is OK because you keep in hands that barrel clubs when you hit, make yourself tough to read, and protect your weaker hands. You also have options to cal flop and get creative later in the hand (double floating, raising turn, or river, etc.).

Folding the flop is a clearly losing play. You called pre-flop with a weak and speculative hand. Now that you hit one of the best flops for the hand (top 7% or so) you should not fold to an action that will happen at least 65% of the time from most MSNL players.

The best of the above choices does depend on the opponent, but folding this flop after playing the hand the way you did pre-flop is not only wasting the immediate value of the situation against almost any player's range, but also counter-intuitive to your pre-flop reasoning for why you thought you'd make money playing such a speculative hand

You were thinking something along the lines of I can bluff, I can hit, I won't get squeezed often, and/or the pre-flop raiser is weak-tight and can easily be run over. While the historical value of this hand in these games in this position with these stack sizes certainly points to you likely over-estimating the situation, it isn't necessarily true for this spot. But now that you've made a plan and what is the likely biggest mistake in it has been made (the pre-flop call), you should act in a way that backs your original logic. In this case, you're a little between the hit the board and semi-bluff area, highlighting another reason to avoid marginal hands pre-flop!

i guess i call too wide from the CO then.
I suppose this is a flat in BU and a 3bet from SB/BB?

one of the rare good HA's on 2+2 ..even though the stuff you wrote is fairly basic it's 100% correct and 20 times better than all those "hehe i just post a random line and leave"people

what do you think his cbet range is? my default plan would be raise, fold to a 3bet, and bet turn if called.

This argument, which you repeated twice in your post, seems logically flawed.
If he made a mistake preflop, that should have no effect on the considerations he takes postflop to maximize his ev. What's done is done...

pre seems pretty damn bad imo. as played what can you do BUT call.