Nl400, A4 turned into str8 - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy Online No-Limit Hold’em Cash

Nl400, A4 turned into str8

Post Reply Subscribe

...

08-28-2014 , 03:12 PM

killi

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 301

$2/$4 No Limit Holdem
5 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($404.50) 101bb
CO ($431.40) 108bb
BTN ($407.10) 102bb
Hero (SB) ($438.70) 110bb
BB ($517.12) 129bb

26/20
rfi BTN 52
Fold to 3bet 64, BTN 65
4bet BTN 8
Fold to cbets in 3bpot (48,35(20),20(5))
Raise cbets in 3bpot (8,25,...)
Floats IP (47,47,56)
Floats IP in 3bpot (48,45,...)
agr (2.6,2.3,2.4), afq (38,29,25)

River: XF,XC or shove?

Pre-Flop: ($6, 5 players) Hero is SB A

2 folds, BTN raises to $10, Hero raises to $34, 1 fold, BTN calls $24

Flop: 3

($72, 2 players)
Hero bets $34.50, BTN calls $34.50

Turn: 6

($141, 2 players)
Hero bets $73, BTN calls $73

River: 5

($287, 2 players)
Hero goes all-in $297.20, BTN

Quote

08-28-2014 , 06:45 PM

LongTimeNoSee

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 666

never c/f, thats for sure.

i prefer shoving since it looks like a bad spot to bluff for villian given he is a known floater.

Quote

08-28-2014 , 07:10 PM

mythrilfox

veteran

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,340

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongTimeNoSee

never c/f, thats for sure.

i prefer shoving since it looks like a bad spot to bluff for villian given he is a known floater.

what do you mean he's a known floater? and why would that make this a bad spot to bluff?

Quote

08-28-2014 , 07:15 PM

LongTimeNoSee

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 666

Quote:

Originally Posted by mythrilfox

what do you mean he's a known floater? and why would that make this a bad spot to bluff?

Quote:

Fold to cbets in 3bpot (48,35(20),20(5))

ok when he comes to the river with JTo he will propably bluff so c/c might be even better.

but he really cant rep the 4 very well, only with A4 and 44, so he is basically repping a flush by betting the river.

i would just shove and hope that 6 or 5 made him a pair.

Quote

08-28-2014 , 07:44 PM

lnternet

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 12,224

If he calls river you have ~27%. Can't see how this is ever a shove unless he hero's off some Ahi.

Quote

08-28-2014 , 09:19 PM

patatepowa

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 395

mmm dont we get a lot more fold equity by betting slightly more on the flop (like 40) against small pairs and Ax

Quote

08-29-2014 , 12:53 AM

ilares

enthusiast

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 50

i dont see what else to do but 3 barrel it; shove it, you have a lot of bluffs here he can call pretty light
x/f is impossible, and x/c seems worse ^^

Quote

08-29-2014 , 12:45 PM

LongTimeNoSee

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 666

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilares

i dont see what else to do but 3 barrel it; shove it, you have a lot of bluffs here he can call pretty light
x/f is impossible, and x/c seems worse ^^

why is c/c bad?

as he rarly folds to c-bet he might have air in his range, like peeling the flop with 2 overs and one club

Quote

08-29-2014 , 04:19 PM

Double_A

adept

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 941

I would bet larger on the flop and turn given the preflop 3bet size (which I think is fine). Something like 45 and 100 on flop and turn.

I think the rest of the hand is fine. I think you get more value with a river shove than a c/c and there are probably hands you get to the river with this way that play best as a c/c.

Quote

08-29-2014 , 06:07 PM

#10

Roger Mainfield

Big Raaaaaaj

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 5,200

Interested in what you think he is calling you with on the river given his open and fold to 3-bet otb. I put in a range based on what he called preflop and it wasn't a valuebet otr. Got a number right around internet's.

Quote

08-29-2014 , 06:57 PM

#11

Double_A

adept

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 941

I don't think it's a value bet on the river. It doesn't have to be oop with these stack sizes. Assuming EV is of c/c is 0 or below our shove only has to work > 33% to be the best option. I haven't plugged any ranges in, and I'm surprised we're only good 27%. lolintuition. Mind typing out the calling range you used?

Quote

08-29-2014 , 07:36 PM

#12

Roger Mainfield

Big Raaaaaaj

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 5,200

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double_A

Something like this:

AdAh,AdAs,AhAs,KdKc,KsKc,TdTc,TsTc,6d6h,6d6s,6h6s, 5d5s,5d5c,5s5c,4h4s,4h4c,4s4c,3d3s,2d2h,2d2s,2h2s, A3s,KcQc,KcJc,QcJc,KcTc,QcTc,JcTc,Kc9c,Qc9c,Jc9c,T c9c,Tc8c,9c8c,9c7c,8c7c,5c4c

I did a crev tree about it and checking was better, but that's not considering the rest of our range.

Quote

08-29-2014 , 07:39 PM

#13

Rei Ayanami

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 11,685

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double_A

I don't think it's a value bet on the river. It doesn't have to be oop with these stack sizes. Assuming EV is of c/c is 0 or below our shove only has to work > 33% to be the best option. I haven't plugged any ranges in, and I'm surprised we're only good 27%. lolintuition. Mind typing out the calling range you used?

Not true -- you'll win after checkdowns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double_A

Mind typing out the calling range you used?

I am curious about this too. My figures were different than lnternet and Roger Manfield's, starting with a total width of 14.5% preflop. (Where we don't differ is in our opinion that checking > shoving.)

Quote

08-29-2014 , 07:41 PM

#14

Double_A

adept

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 941

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rei Ayanami

Not true -- you'll win after checkdowns.

Haha I knew that seemed to easy. Thanks for pointing that out. I agree c/c is looking much better now.

Quote

08-29-2014 , 09:03 PM

#15

Roger Mainfield

Big Raaaaaaj

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 5,200

There are situations where you jam knowing you win less then 50% of the time when called (for value~~~ish), but shame on me I can't vocalize the exact situations.

Quote

08-29-2014 , 09:36 PM

#16

Rei Ayanami

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 11,685

One-card A-T toy game with no card removal and no properties that would lead to hidden incompatibilities with this example. Hedged to pot-sized betting.

We currently have a K, OOP. (Our range includes more hands than that.)

Villain's range is [A (30%), Q (20%), J (50%)]. He calls a jam with A and Q. He jams A (30%) and J (15%) when checked to.

EV of jamming is ((0.40)(3) - 1)*0.50 + 1*0.50 = 0.60.
EV of checking is 0.55.
EV of checking if we were IP would have been 0.70.

Quote

08-31-2014 , 01:06 AM

#17

clydetheglide

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 448

Maybe I get looked up more than some bc of my high 3bet/agg, but this is an easy jam for me.

Also yeah $5 or $6 more on the flop.

C/c is bad bc the hands that may call you (77 and up, A3) prob won't bet but might call. He almost always has a hand with showdown equity here (77 on up, A high, or a 3)...and those hands might all check back. Any hand that beats you is just going to jam anyways, which is going to be the same as you jamming here because you obv aren't folding.

Last edited by clydetheglide; 08-31-2014 at 01:35 AM.

Quote

Post Reply Subscribe

...