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NL1000 Boat vs Checkback and river overbetshove vs my overbet NL1000 Boat vs Checkback and river overbetshove vs my overbet

05-17-2012 , 04:35 AM
Villain is super aggro pre-flop. 29/25/16, Flop Cbet 72%.
I polarized myself and he shoved. no idea what to do. I really think no one ever bluffs in this spot here but who knows???

Poker Stars $1000.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

SB: $3087.85
Hero (BB): $1015.00
UTG: $1030.00
CO: $1464.08
BTN: $1451.95

Pre Flop: ($15.00) Hero is BB with 6 6
UTG raises to $30, 3 folds, Hero calls $20

Flop: ($65.00) 5 5 J (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks

Turn: ($65.00) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $50.00, UTG calls $50

River: ($165.00) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $210.00, UTG raises to $950, Hero ???

7 combos of higher boats/quads, 36% pot odds, need him to have 3 worse hands.
Could he possibly play baby flush draws this way? I'm also not too sure whether he would check the Flop with 77. Why would flushes shove so huge over my overbet anyway?

On the flipside, my overbet isn't too big so maybe villain doesn't care too much about it. I'm also wondering whether you guys will call if I potted and he ships.
NL1000 Boat vs Checkback and river overbetshove vs my overbet Quote
05-17-2012 , 05:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbtl
On the flipside, my overbet isn't too big so maybe villain doesn't care too much about it.
he cares about it, strongly doubt your looking at any worse value hands
NL1000 Boat vs Checkback and river overbetshove vs my overbet Quote
05-17-2012 , 09:36 AM
Cant see how he ever plays a worse valuehand like this and he probably play JJ/77 like this a good %. It would take a real sicko 2 bluff here
NL1000 Boat vs Checkback and river overbetshove vs my overbet Quote
05-17-2012 , 10:23 AM
Man that is horrible sizing by villain.
NL1000 Boat vs Checkback and river overbetshove vs my overbet Quote
05-17-2012 , 11:45 PM
I think he could have a flush or mid pockets?
10 or 9?
NL1000 Boat vs Checkback and river overbetshove vs my overbet Quote
05-18-2012 , 12:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imaginary F(r)iend
Man that is horrible sizing by villain.
how do you know
NL1000 Boat vs Checkback and river overbetshove vs my overbet Quote
05-18-2012 , 06:32 AM
It's possible he would check back the flop with JJ, 55 and 77.

Sometimes he calls the turn with 77, and also with JJ and 55.

Since he raises your overbet on the river, it's a fold. He doesn't have practically anything worse to do it for value, and it would be too crazy to think you would fold something here to a bluff shove...
NL1000 Boat vs Checkback and river overbetshove vs my overbet Quote
05-18-2012 , 10:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BalugaWhale
how do you know
obv agree


Quote:
Originally Posted by vrs
and it would be too crazy to think you would fold something here to a bluff shove...
This could be wrong as evidenced by your own post. Don't be convinced the level you think on is the only one that exists.

That being said, I think the fold is decently protected because we actually rep 88 here as well, which is one of the most important factors in this hand.
NL1000 Boat vs Checkback and river overbetshove vs my overbet Quote
05-18-2012 , 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imaginary F(r)iend
Name a hand or a range that it is good for against a decent reg. Ofc I do not know history/meta or if gbtl leaks here somehow.
this should be pretty obvious.

If hero is capped at 77 and doesn't make hero folds, JJ 55 77.

If hero is capped at 77 and is capable of making hero folds, then its tough to define a range, ATC will do so long as the frequency is not transparent.
NL1000 Boat vs Checkback and river overbetshove vs my overbet Quote
05-18-2012 , 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Boccia
obv agree




This could be wrong as evidenced by your own post. Don't be convinced the level you think on is the only one that exists.

That being said, I think the fold is decently protected because we actually rep 88 here as well, which is one of the most important factors in this hand.
crap i meant to say 77 not 88 obviously,

We rep the stronger overfull as well, which villain could hypothetically be less likely to bluff into if his perceived range included 66.
NL1000 Boat vs Checkback and river overbetshove vs my overbet Quote
05-18-2012 , 08:43 PM
Hero is capped at 77 if he calls pre here with a range of 22-TT when it comes to pocket pairs or alternatively doesn't overbet quads or play them like this. Neither one of these seems very good (aka decent reg). Trying to make someone fold 77 seems bad. Also both of your options are about exploiting the hero.

If hero has a larger range here (as I actually would assume), smaller raise would do the same thing. The only hand that he is causing more problems with that sizing is exactly this hand with that bigger bet sizing.

Last edited by Imaginary F(r)iend; 05-18-2012 at 08:48 PM.
NL1000 Boat vs Checkback and river overbetshove vs my overbet Quote
05-22-2012 , 10:00 AM
If he really has JJ, 77 or 55 why not just min-raise the river to try a subsequent shove by you.

IMHO you should calll. He can actually be playing QQ, KK, AA like this. TT is also possible if he thinks a shove will make you fold a Jx for instance.
NL1000 Boat vs Checkback and river overbetshove vs my overbet Quote
05-22-2012 , 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milhas
If he really has JJ, 77 or 55 why not just min-raise the river to try a subsequent shove by you.
because it won't (or shouldn't) work. I try this more often than anyone and it just doesn't induce thin value river 3-bets as well as you think it does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milhas
IMHO you should calll. He can actually be playing QQ, KK, AA like this.
no, he can't (unless its a bluff)
NL1000 Boat vs Checkback and river overbetshove vs my overbet Quote
05-22-2012 , 05:07 PM
fold preflop

turn/riv bets are fine

his value range is quite obviously 77+ on river and is never bluffing after checking back flop and facing turn bet + riv overbet. Your hand is effectively Jx here.

Fold
NL1000 Boat vs Checkback and river overbetshove vs my overbet Quote

      
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