Pretty simple question. What % of profitable poker players are making over 250k a year. Just online cash, non-donkament pros. How does this differ when you include donkament pros? (include RB, SNE whatever you want... doesn't matter)

Would love to hear a discussion of what ppl think in 2010. % of ppl calling themselves online pros, just cash, making 250k+ a year for the poll though. Discussion can be diff. gogoGOgoOGOGOO

If you include micro and ssnl grinders I'd say about 2%.

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I personally agree with that estimate (gdollaz) of the entire profitable cash poker population pool. Would love to see what others think.

If its above 1% its not by much.

I guess it depends on how you define "pro", but it's not many. PTR proves that.

PTR doesn't count rakeback though.... I'd say over 1/2 of SNE's get there since they already get min 110k in rakeback....

But are all SNE winners?

No idea, many are probably around b/e I suspect. Surely the percentage of players (even if you only include winning players) that are SNEs is tiny. (Though I'm not sure exactly what these SNEs are, some elite status for serious heavy duty grinders on a site?)

not me lol

but working 10 hours a week is awesome. I just dont like working in general so I dont mind playing less and making less.

yeh, i mean i definiltely hear about a lot of 250k/year winners but i think theres a very big silent majority of lesser winning regs.

I think it has to be 1% or less. Add in donkament pros and it's a lot more.

Re: PTR, it doesn't include rakeback, and it doesn't track you across multiple sites. Also for Stars grinders it doesn't include things like milestones which can be $20k+ a year depending on how much you play (even without SNE).

I play on Stars and I really doubt many SNE are making $250k. Sure there are the sickos like nanonoko and bruut but the vast majority of them are grinding breakeven or even slightly losing players. Profiting 140k+ on top of SNE is pretty rare, it's mainly done by people who grind the **** out of smaller full-ring games that run constantly.

Also some of the "value" of SNE is in live donkament packages, so if you don't cash you don't really get the 10-15k value at all.

People still talk about winrates like it's the party days, I have heard MSNL players say "LOL it would be so easy to make $100/hour 5-tabling small stakes" and that's just not realistic these days.

wtf very few people make that much, and if you wanna know how many make it per year, the number will drop even lower

define pro maybe you think of pros as nl1k+ regs

more than people think.

Ask them how many regulars they think are actually playing their limits, they will overestimate.


Realize how few different regulars play on your limit. E.g. say you know about 200 regulars playing the 2/4 game 3% would mean only 6 of them are doing this thing seriously and taking home 20k / month+ including rakeback, donkaments, sponsoring, etc.

It also depends who you call pro.
Do you call the average Joe who's having poker as a side job to pay for studies (e.g. me) a pro player? He can be making the hourly required, but he's just not gonna have the opportunity to put in volume.


2nd thing:
before or after taxes? (for me that's a 100K+ difference on 250k).

On donkament pro's
also realise that there are thousands of people who are playing donkaments. I wouldn't be able to estimate the ratio cash : tournament players, but I think it's easily like 1 : 50
there is a higher absolute number of donkament players who earn 250k+, but the player pool is just soo much bigger.

Imagine 500 regulars playing 6 max NLHE, each doing 6-8 tables on average, that'd mean over 500 games, more like 750, have to run to give them a seat.


Last but not least, the phrasing of the question is half the outcome.

250 / 12 = only like 20k per month!!!

% of poker population that runs > 250k below ev per year must be way higher than the % who earn that