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Old 06-03-2012, 08:27 PM   #1
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Lots of options.

Pre I was torn, but villain is really aggro, especially in the blinds, so I decided to put the horns to him and 4b/get it in. Flatting would have been fine too I know.

Flop was the same, I was torn between betting, and checking back. He prob jams PP's pre. He plays really aggro, not bad. Pretty annoying opponent. Std. stats.

PokerStars - $5 NL (6 max) ZOOM - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (BTN): $2,358.60
SB: $575.94
BB: $500.00
UTG: $261.97
MP: $548.52
CO: $188.00

SB posts SB $2.50, BB posts BB $5.00

Pre Flop: ($7.50) Hero has A J

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $10.00, fold, BB raises to $40.00, Hero raises to $85.00, BB calls $45.00

Flop: ($172.50, 2 players) 3 6 4
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($172.50, 2 players) 2
BB bets $84.85, Hero calls $84.85

River: ($342.20, 2 players) K
BB bets $330.15 and is all-in,

River's a little annoying since he has KQ/KJ type hands a fair bit. Thoughts?
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:32 PM   #2
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What's worst value hand he does this with? Seems like pretty much the only thing to consider on river and I like every other street.
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:32 PM   #3
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Re: Lots of options.

If he jams PP's pre then bet the flop really small to induce and snap?
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:41 PM   #4
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Re: Lots of options.

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Originally Posted by cheer View Post
If he jams PP's pre then bet the flop really small to induce and snap?
Like I said, I considered it, but I know he will play pretty well vs a bet, Ie. he knows i'll be reluctant to fold Ahi to a jam, so he'll jam a pr for value and prob throw in some A5/KQ type hands, so why b/c if i'm uncomfortable doing it.
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:52 PM   #5
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Re: Lots of options.

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What's worst value hand he does this with? Seems like pretty much the only thing to consider on river and I like every other street.
Given our line he probably value bets a ton of hands on the river, the real question IMO is if AJ is a hand we should play like this vs a smart aggro opponent who will really make our life stink on a bunch of rivers. I understand why not cbetting the flop makes sense but doesn't cbetting it avoid tough situations on turns/rivers? especially when villain is probably not going to bluff at an ace often enough for us to want to check behind flop?

As played I don't see how you can possibly call the river when villain still has all of his strong/made hands in his range by the river.
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Old 06-03-2012, 09:01 PM   #6
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Re: Lots of options.

Yeah I don't think checking the flop is gonna be better than betting $75 unless you have such an idea what his pre flop range is that a spot like this wouldn't be so terrible.
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Old 06-03-2012, 09:09 PM   #7
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Re: Lots of options.

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Originally Posted by oldjude View Post
Like I said, I considered it, but I know he will play pretty well vs a bet, Ie. he knows i'll be reluctant to fold Ahi to a jam, so he'll jam a pr for value and prob throw in some A5/KQ type hands, so why b/c if i'm uncomfortable doing it.
i think as well as he is going to play vs a bet, he is still going to play even better vs a check given how capped your range becomes for the most part
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:14 PM   #8
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Re: Lots of options.

pretty sure in this spot, if you're going to check back, you're supposed to fold turn.

Andrew
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Old 06-04-2012, 08:13 PM   #9
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Re: Lots of options.

pre I prefer flatting AJs and 4bing AJo, id generally bet flop for like 1/4 pot here range vs range with 100bb stacks. On turn, obviously he has a ton of bluffs in his range since hes probably flatting all his suited connectors and broadway hands pf to this sizing, and likely jams all pp's pf if he was 3bing with them 100bbs deep, so with decent reads I dont mind the turn call.

However, this river is awkward, and id expect most people to give up with their air range here on a card that hits your range more then his, and id also assume if hes decent he will know the large amount of bluffs he can represent on this river by going all in especially after the fd misses, and expect you to call on this river quite lightly, not to mention all the AK's in your perceived range.

Given all this, its still hard for me to put villain on a hand because I doubt hes jamming river for value with less then ~KT on this river, and its just pretty hard for him to have hit this flop/turn combo given preflop action, so I think its a close spot. In the end though I think even though its hard for him to have something, its just less likely that hes bluffing given how the action played up to the river without a sepcific history/dynamic between you 2. I'd be much more likely to call on non A or K rivers here.
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:03 PM   #10
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Re: Lots of options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BalugaWhale View Post
pretty sure in this spot, if you're going to check back, you're supposed to fold turn.

Andrew
This. As played fold river.
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:39 PM   #11
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Re: Lots of options.

I'd generally call pre, if he's getting out of line an insane amount I'd probably just shove. Completely unbalanced but I think the times you fold out AQ/weak pairs outweigh the times you get it in vs 87s.
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Old 06-05-2012, 02:21 AM   #12
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Re: Lots of options.

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Originally Posted by _jimbo_ View Post
I'd generally call pre, if he's getting out of line an insane amount I'd probably just shove. Completely unbalanced but I think the times you fold out AQ/weak pairs outweigh the times you get it in vs 87s.
man i dont think AQ or pairs are ever folding to a jam
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Old 06-05-2012, 04:02 AM   #13
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Re: Lots of options.

Man I really prefer flatting pre even if he's 3betting a lot. Maybe if he's 3betting something insane like 30%+, or likes to call a lot of 4bets oop, I guess, but still, AJs plays so well IP.

I get why you want to check back flop, but honestly I think it will just make the whole hand so much tougher and lower our overall EV. I think just betting small on the flop is going to generally be the better option. River just chicken out and fold i guess, if he has some pure air hand like JT he probably (?) cbets this flop since ure not percived to hit it a ton, at least most of the time. Obv with history he's going to check here sometimes with air, but still still
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Old 06-05-2012, 05:28 AM   #14
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Re: Lots of options.

You 4bet and then check behind when you miss because....?
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Old 06-05-2012, 07:03 AM   #15
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Re: Lots of options.

... he has the best hand and wants to induce.
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