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| Medium Stakes PL/NL Discussions about medium stakes pot-limit and no-limit hold'em (2-4 to 5-10) |
06-03-2012, 08:27 PM
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#1
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Zoom
Posts: 4,234
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Lots of options.
Pre I was torn, but villain is really aggro, especially in the blinds, so I decided to put the horns to him and 4b/get it in. Flatting would have been fine too I know.
Flop was the same, I was torn between betting, and checking back. He prob jams PP's pre. He plays really aggro, not bad. Pretty annoying opponent. Std. stats.
PokerStars - $5 NL (6 max) ZOOM - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
Hero (BTN): $2,358.60
SB: $575.94
BB: $500.00
UTG: $261.97
MP: $548.52
CO: $188.00
SB posts SB $2.50, BB posts BB $5.00
Pre Flop: ($7.50) Hero has A  J
fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $10.00, fold, BB raises to $40.00, Hero raises to $85.00, BB calls $45.00
Flop: ($172.50, 2 players) 3  6  4
BB checks, Hero checks
Turn: ($172.50, 2 players) 2
BB bets $84.85, Hero calls $84.85
River: ($342.20, 2 players) K
BB bets $330.15 and is all-in,
River's a little annoying since he has KQ/KJ type hands a fair bit. Thoughts?
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06-03-2012, 08:32 PM
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#2
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veteran
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,318
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What's worst value hand he does this with? Seems like pretty much the only thing to consider on river and I like every other street.
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06-03-2012, 08:32 PM
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#3
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veteran
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Staking, Coaching
Posts: 2,322
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Re: Lots of options.
If he jams PP's pre then bet the flop really small to induce and snap?
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06-03-2012, 08:41 PM
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#4
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Zoom
Posts: 4,234
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Re: Lots of options.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheer
If he jams PP's pre then bet the flop really small to induce and snap?
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Like I said, I considered it, but I know he will play pretty well vs a bet, Ie. he knows i'll be reluctant to fold Ahi to a jam, so he'll jam a pr for value and prob throw in some A5/KQ type hands, so why b/c if i'm uncomfortable doing it.
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06-03-2012, 08:52 PM
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#5
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Vancouver
Posts: 5,628
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Re: Lots of options.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scansion
What's worst value hand he does this with? Seems like pretty much the only thing to consider on river and I like every other street.
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Given our line he probably value bets a ton of hands on the river, the real question IMO is if AJ is a hand we should play like this vs a smart aggro opponent who will really make our life stink on a bunch of rivers. I understand why not cbetting the flop makes sense but doesn't cbetting it avoid tough situations on turns/rivers? especially when villain is probably not going to bluff at an ace often enough for us to want to check behind flop?
As played I don't see how you can possibly call the river when villain still has all of his strong/made hands in his range by the river.
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06-03-2012, 09:01 PM
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#6
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,475
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Re: Lots of options.
Yeah I don't think checking the flop is gonna be better than betting $75 unless you have such an idea what his pre flop range is that a spot like this wouldn't be so terrible.
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06-03-2012, 09:09 PM
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#7
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journeyman
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 382
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Re: Lots of options.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjude
Like I said, I considered it, but I know he will play pretty well vs a bet, Ie. he knows i'll be reluctant to fold Ahi to a jam, so he'll jam a pr for value and prob throw in some A5/KQ type hands, so why b/c if i'm uncomfortable doing it.
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i think as well as he is going to play vs a bet, he is still going to play even better vs a check given how capped your range becomes for the most part
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06-04-2012, 07:14 PM
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#8
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bronzing
Posts: 6,212
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Re: Lots of options.
pretty sure in this spot, if you're going to check back, you're supposed to fold turn.
Andrew
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06-04-2012, 08:13 PM
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#9
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adept
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 990
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Re: Lots of options.
pre I prefer flatting AJs and 4bing AJo, id generally bet flop for like 1/4 pot here range vs range with 100bb stacks. On turn, obviously he has a ton of bluffs in his range since hes probably flatting all his suited connectors and broadway hands pf to this sizing, and likely jams all pp's pf if he was 3bing with them 100bbs deep, so with decent reads I dont mind the turn call.
However, this river is awkward, and id expect most people to give up with their air range here on a card that hits your range more then his, and id also assume if hes decent he will know the large amount of bluffs he can represent on this river by going all in especially after the fd misses, and expect you to call on this river quite lightly, not to mention all the AK's in your perceived range.
Given all this, its still hard for me to put villain on a hand because I doubt hes jamming river for value with less then ~KT on this river, and its just pretty hard for him to have hit this flop/turn combo given preflop action, so I think its a close spot. In the end though I think even though its hard for him to have something, its just less likely that hes bluffing given how the action played up to the river without a sepcific history/dynamic between you 2. I'd be much more likely to call on non A or K rivers here.
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06-04-2012, 09:03 PM
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#10
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veteran
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Repping Da Setz
Posts: 2,048
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Re: Lots of options.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BalugaWhale
pretty sure in this spot, if you're going to check back, you're supposed to fold turn.
Andrew
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This. As played fold river.
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06-04-2012, 09:39 PM
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#11
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grinder
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Dublin
Posts: 576
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Re: Lots of options.
I'd generally call pre, if he's getting out of line an insane amount I'd probably just shove. Completely unbalanced but I think the times you fold out AQ/weak pairs outweigh the times you get it in vs 87s.
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06-05-2012, 02:21 AM
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#12
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journeyman
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 382
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Re: Lots of options.
Quote:
Originally Posted by _jimbo_
I'd generally call pre, if he's getting out of line an insane amount I'd probably just shove. Completely unbalanced but I think the times you fold out AQ/weak pairs outweigh the times you get it in vs 87s.
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man i dont think AQ or pairs are ever folding to a jam
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06-05-2012, 04:02 AM
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#13
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 9,613
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Re: Lots of options.
Man I really prefer flatting pre even if he's 3betting a lot. Maybe if he's 3betting something insane like 30%+, or likes to call a lot of 4bets oop, I guess, but still, AJs plays so well IP.
I get why you want to check back flop, but honestly I think it will just make the whole hand so much tougher and lower our overall EV. I think just betting small on the flop is going to generally be the better option. River just chicken out and fold i guess, if he has some pure air hand like JT he probably (?) cbets this flop since ure not percived to hit it a ton, at least most of the time. Obv with history he's going to check here sometimes with air, but still still
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06-05-2012, 05:28 AM
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#14
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veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,127
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Re: Lots of options.
You 4bet and then check behind when you miss because....?
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06-05-2012, 07:03 AM
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#15
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old hand
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: ....hatin flipz!
Posts: 1,877
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Re: Lots of options.
... he has the best hand and wants to induce.
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