Even if 7/T/J/Q comes? All of them? Or maybe not to call 7 and Q? I think he would not turn his hand into a bluff if he hit his T/J/Q for SDV, my range looks pretty strong otr.

I think it's an easy call. why dont you think so? I dont think we raise the turn often, if ever, so we can put some "floats" in there to balance all our nuts, and JT is the best "float" ever. not close imo. we can argue whether we have J7 or 76 or QT on the river, but JT seems pretty standard.

I'm not trying to be rude, but I hope that this is a level. Just to make things clear for a likely new poster to the forum, I completely disagree with this statement.

Again with preventing possible levels, but this also makes no sense. You're cutting down combinations of your opponent value betting worse when you have JT versus KK.

I havent looked into hand combo's but i suspect what internet said makes alot of sense.

do you think about shove or just call?

wtf if you wanna fold here

Thnx for explaining, that makes a lot of sense.

I thought about a fold. My range looks strong after my turn call. I saw his range otf as twopair+, straight draws, rare air and rare 9x. On this turn when he barrels I think that straight draws are the greatest part of his range. And when he barrels otr I am not sure about my call, especially with this sizing. As I think he bluffs otr only with air which is the least part otr and do not see him bluff his SDV if he rivered a ten to his JT or QT, I do not see me having 30% equity calling otr.

Yeah I don't get why we would rather call with JT than KK on the river either. Maybe it's a miss-read of the hand or something.

Blockers...

For what, QJ? No way that makes sense enough for JT to be better than KK to call with. JT blocks some of the hands we actually want villian to hold.

Aww, I was looking forward to some more posts and discussion from Internet and Shoota.

It's obv really..

I don't think he can value bet river with AT like this. We call river with Tx/9x/straight and raise boats/some bluffs. So there is no value for AT. Even if we occasionally hero with 8x or Ahi he still can't bet AT for value as we have too many 9x/straights/raising hands.

So villains river betting range is 9x,straight,boat for value. so JT and KK are both pure bluffcatchers - they win if he is bluffing, they lose if he isn't. So what differentiates the two is how likely villain is to be in his value range or in his bluffing range based on what cards we have.

value blocking:
KK blocks K9 (up to 4 blocked combos)
JT blocks QJ,J7,J9 (up to 4+4+2=10 combos)

bluff blocking: (this is in no way equivalent to value blocking; this effect is much weaker in general)
KK blocks all Kx bluffs. insignificant.
JT blocks all Jx. insignificant.

The T in JT makes it less likely that villain will check the river, as he is less likely to have QT JT T7 T6, or any other Tx. However, once villain has bet, that blocker effect has no consequence for his betting range.

So very simple. JT blocks value hands, KK doesnt = better bluffcatch JT than KK.



I don't know why I spelled this out because it's very basic.

But most villians c/r the flop way more often with JT and 67 than stuff like J7 etc right? Not to mention that they won't play J7 as often pre-flop, so you have to weight for that surely. There is also a the chance, albeit small, that villian bets a hand on the river better or equal to JT but worse than KK - unless you somehow know for certain that villian's betting range is what you say it is.