When you call the turn even a braindead monkey can see u have a decent king. Betting the turn yourself u'd define your hand better and could rep a wider range.

Why on earth would the BB be calling turn here with AA? Sure he's a breakeven player but thats awful.

I still think its a fold

edit: so BB is a strong reg? godd this is such an easy fold u guys r craaazy

+1 ppl saying fold plz explain why btn does'nt raise flop this deep 3 way with a set? and even in the rare occasion btn has a set we have outs

Id add a few combos of AK too.. but you're right we should call vs BTN, but its the BB that worries me since I don't think he calls with AA/QQ here.

I think button flopped a set nearly always here.

BTN range, 77,33,KTs+,KJo+
BB range 77,33,KQs+

we iz crushed

because its such a dry board an hes IP, there's no rush. he can just let us do his betting for him.

id fold


edit: if this one of those backwards hands, and old jude is really the btn, call all day.

1. He's Ip
2. The board is dry as hell
3. It looks ridiculously strong
4. The pot is already mega bloated after his call, getting it in is not going to be hard.

well according to my guerrilla math there are a couple different scenarios....

against a range of BTN (33,77) and BB(AA,AK) if we call the turn we need to make $703 on the river when we improve. BTN who started the hand with the least amount of money has $704 left on the river so we need to get his whole stack every time we improve.

against a range of BTN(33,77) and BB(AK) if we call the turn we need to make somewhere in the ballpark of $1000 on the river which cant happen. So we fold.

against a range of BTN(33,77) and BB(AA) if we call the turn we need to make $392 on the river when we improve to show a profit.

and against a range of BTN(33,77,KTs+,KQo) and BB(AA) we are getting better than direct odds to call on the turn

so it seems like it all comes down to whether or not the BB has a AK in his range.

If we call here, calling most rivers is ridiculously bad unless BTN is a huge spaz.

good that someone actually did the math. If I had to guess ranges Id go with the last one so im mostly calling here

folding seems fine?

im incredibly tilted at ppl putting BB on AA after he calls turn

edit: not impossible but unlikely imo.. what the **** can he expect to be ahead of when two ppl call K73 flop and K turns.

this is a cool spot jude and it's reaaaaallly close tbh

i did some math and tried to weight people's ranges as best i could (ie bb has AK here some% that's obv not 100) and it looks like you've got about 26% equity which is nearly enough to call

if you think that btn has KJo in his range or that BB has AK here 25% of the time or less I think it's a close call and if the above isnt true then i think it's a fold

Old Jude, wassup mang. LOL look at the thread I jsut made. I am villain and also found this hand very interesting. BTW, did u see that hand I posted in FTP reg thread where i accidently folded the flush on river? What did u have there, i obv misclicked.

Please give me your honest critique of my play on this hand... I am interested.

Correct. Once called on turn I was 100% done with the hand.

jesus christ you people are making these players out to be thinking on a 10/20+ level. The button can have 56s or some other random ****. BB bet 90 on the flop so he can even have AQ for all we know, with his thought process being, well I'm getting such great odds maybe I can draw here. Then once the K hits and it's checked to him he's like, well, maybe no one has a king and I can kinda rep a big hand so I'm gonna bluff. His range is definitely way wider on the flop then you give him credit for.

And yes he most definitely can have KJ here and probably K10s as well. I guarantee a break even-ish player can definitely think it's ok to value bet K10 when checked to as well.

It's pretty awful for the bb to check AK in this spot on the turn, unless he expects either of you to float/bet a lot, which probably isn't the case all too often on this board.

I think it's actually kinda close between betting and checking and checking is fine, but once you check, folding is pretty awful without a better read on the button.

once you call though I think it is perfectly fine to fold river unimproved because unless button is incredibly stupid which we don't think, he's not shoving worse because he's definitely afraid of a better hand at this point.

I wish I played with people that thought BTN's range after flat calling a 1/3 pot sized bet on the flop on a K73 board was 77 and 33.

So HustlerLA, I guess you were bluffing with some weak hand like 78 or a mid pair? I mean sure if the flop bet was bigger then it would be completely ridiculous to think you could ever be bluffing here but with such good odds on the flop, you could call to either hit your hand or make a bluff at the pot if there's weakness on the turn.

Also, yes it is pretty bad to be calling with AA on the turn if your BB, but not everyone plays flawlessly and they just convince themselves with AA that neither BB or BTN has a king. However, it's also hard to see what he's c/cing with on the turn that beats us.

Oh another thing - can I ask why your (oldjude) calling pre with KQs here when you flop almost the nuts with your hand and yet you don't think it's profitable to be getting the money in?

Yeah had 6s 7s, for Pair + BD FD and BD Str8 draw. and was getting 5 to 1 on flop. Plan was to value bet/raise any 6, or 7. And based on turn action to semibluff/raise spade turns or str8 draw turns, or call based on action.

that's a good point i totally didnt even look at the flop bet size. totally changes everything

Yes the flop bet size is important and widens my range. But at the same time, since this flop is sahara dry, I don't have draws here, and only seldom am playing my particualar hand this way.

Yeah, I think that the fact that a) it seems like a good place to bluff in BTN's spot with any two after the turn gets checked to him and b) it's almost impossible for him to continue bluffing the river when he gets called in two places makes this into a call. Also the fact that he was getting good odds on all his previous calls makes his range much wide than people are letting on.

i think the interesting thought should be is if button should shove any non A or Q river. Would be a sick line, but given how it's unlikely anyone else has AK/33/77 and how strong the line looks I think it's actually a good play.