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Old 02-10-2010, 05:11 AM   #1
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Commerce Casino 5/10NL

Hey guys I got myself into some more trouble the other night at the commerce 5/10NL. This hand took place about 30 minutes or so into my session. I had been playing fairly laggy since I sat down and therefore villain in the hand knows I'm capable of bluff raising flops with garbage. He's a late 30's asian unknown who seems to know what he is doing, but I wouldn't label him as that much of a thinking player. I had just showed down a fairly large bluff about an orbit ago against another player at the table just to note. Effective stacks are $1800

Onto the hand, I am in seat 9, villain is in seat 7 and on the button. One limper in late position, Villain limps as well on the button, SB calls, I check my option in the BB with 3 2 .

Flop (40) - Q 2 3

SB checks, I lead out for $35 fairly quickly, everyone else folds and villain on the button makes it $150 total. SB then folds and its back to me. I think for about 20 seconds or so and I make it $320 total. He then looks over at me and in only 5 seconds or so pushes out 7 stacks of yellows and makes it $700 total. Hero? He has about $1100ish behind.
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Old 02-10-2010, 05:21 AM   #2
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Re: Commerce Casino 5/10NL

Don't 3bet, now snap fold.
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Old 02-10-2010, 06:07 AM   #3
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Re: Commerce Casino 5/10NL

tsojojo what hands are you exactly afraid off?

Last edited by WRCZ; 02-10-2010 at 06:29 AM.
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Old 02-10-2010, 06:28 AM   #4
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Re: Commerce Casino 5/10NL

you played it well now ship
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Old 02-10-2010, 07:01 AM   #5
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Re: Commerce Casino 5/10NL

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tsojojo what hands are you exactly afraid off?
22,33,Q2s,Q3s.

What other would he valueraise and not fold besides maybe 32?

Our valuerange is pretty damn strong when we 3bet, so it's imo v unlikely villain tries to bluff us off them. Our 3bet is also rediculously small, so he'd prob just flat even with combodraws.
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Old 02-10-2010, 07:15 AM   #6
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Re: Commerce Casino 5/10NL

He's not very much of a thinking player, but he probably thinks you can bluff raise flops with garbage (even if so you led, you didn't raise flop.. doubt he'd think you're bluff bet/3betting even if villain WAS thinking). I wouldn't 3bet flop. If I did though, it'd be to get allin. I don't like 3betting flop though because how often is he gonna have and not fold Qx? I doubt it's a huge part of his range.
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Old 02-10-2010, 07:22 AM   #7
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Re: Commerce Casino 5/10NL

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsojojojojojojo View Post
22,33,Q2s,Q3s.

What other would he valueraise and not fold besides maybe 32?

Our valuerange is pretty damn strong when we 3bet, so it's imo v unlikely villain tries to bluff us off them. Our 3bet is also rediculously small, so he'd prob just flat even with combodraws.

well..im no experienced 10/9 max player...and live im even more unexperienced...but i still doubt ppl limp buttons w/ Q2/Q3...so basically were afraid of two combos..22/33...considering the board this is just a small part of his range...which could lead from incl. gutters, oesd, oesfd, gsfds...i mean only thing is ..button gotta give us some respect for having at least 2pair here since were in the bb and it wasnt raised or anything...but beeing afraid of basically two combos isnt enough for me. and as for limping b w/ Q2/3..i think hed rather limp w/ AA/AQ/KK/KQ than Q2/Q3...

well w/e. after 3betting im stacking off here.
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Old 02-10-2010, 08:12 AM   #8
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Re: Commerce Casino 5/10NL

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well..im no experienced 10/9 max player...and live im even more unexperienced...but i still doubt ppl limp buttons w/ Q2/Q3...
I'd much rather add Q2o to his range than remove Q3s.

Quote:
but beeing afraid of basically two combos isnt enough for me.
Yeah, the a priori propability to him having us beat is small, but it's the posteriori probability that matters. Him raising over our strong lead, and 4betting over our ridiculously strong 3bet is a rare event. Why couldn't that rare event happen due to him having a rare hand?


Quote:
well w/e. after 3betting im stacking off here.
Sunk costs thinking imo. No reason to make a bad call just because you made a bad 3bet.
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Old 02-10-2010, 12:37 PM   #9
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Re: Commerce Casino 5/10NL

You guys have clearly never played in LA before.
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Old 02-10-2010, 12:44 PM   #10
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Re: Commerce Casino 5/10NL

i havent played more than 5k live cash hands :>...so im very careful with what i say here since i could be veeeery wrong...but from what ive seen / read about livegames its just beyond bad...and therefore he could well enough have AQ imo..basically there are much much more hands we have beat than the other way around..therefor its an offstack in my book. but as ive said...i have no clue about fullring live games.

and penelope...you have never played in european cardrooms, have you :>?
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Old 02-10-2010, 03:13 PM   #11
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Re: Commerce Casino 5/10NL

nope but at commerce ez stackoff here
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Old 02-10-2010, 03:47 PM   #12
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Re: Commerce Casino 5/10NL

Very tough spot ... Not saying what my action would be ... However, if I decided to continue with the hand, I would be more inclined to flat the flop 4b instead of shoving. My reasoning is that the only hands you're ahead of are the big draws, so if you get to see a safe turn you can shove into the button and if the turn is a heart then you either 1) get saved vs. his set or 2) can just c/f and save your remaining $1,100.

Wahoozle
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Old 02-10-2010, 03:57 PM   #13
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Re: Commerce Casino 5/10NL

ummm...i really dont think this is a easy stackoff.

but given the game dynamics...you have to stack off after the 3bet. i wouldnt three bet though. and i would definitely include Q3s in his button limping range.

yes, i do play in commerce.
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Old 02-10-2010, 04:27 PM   #14
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Re: Commerce Casino 5/10NL

i didnt see that we were 180bb deep.

i would fold
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Old 02-10-2010, 07:30 PM   #15
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Re: Commerce Casino 5/10NL

I fold... If he has you beat he has you totally boned, and if he has a Q or draw he's got pretty good equity. 100 bbs I probably get it in but this deep and with his scary sizing I think you gotta let it go. Curious to hear results.
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