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NL2, flop cbet NL2, flop cbet

03-19-2017 , 10:55 AM
1)

PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 139.5 BB (VPIP: 22.73, PFR: 18.18, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 23)
Hero (BTN): 119.5 BB
SB: 173.5 BB (VPIP: 43.24, PFR: 21.62, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 37)
BB: 99 BB (VPIP: 22.58, PFR: 19.35, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 32)
UTG: 104 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 22)
MP: 122.5 BB (VPIP: 10.00, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 10)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q A

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.5 BB, SB calls 2 BB, fold

Flop: (6 BB, 2 players) 4 K A
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (6 BB, 2 players) 8
SB bets 4 BB, Hero calls 4 BB

River: (14 BB, 2 players) 3
SB bets 8 BB, Hero calls 8 BB

SB shows J K (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 36%, Flop 18%, Turn 11%)
Hero shows Q A (One Pair, Aces)
(Pre 64%, Flop 82%, Turn 89%)
Hero wins 29 BB


Do you cbet flop for value? I feel like I don't really need to protect my hand as the board is very dry and if I bet then I never get called by pocket pairs or gutshots and I want them to turn these hands into bluff on Turn and River. Do you raise River?

2)

PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 56 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
Hero (BB): 127.5 BB
UTG: 251.5 BB (VPIP: 41.38, PFR: 21.05, 3Bet Preflop: 12.00, Hands: 59)
MP: 79 BB (VPIP: 31.43, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 35)
CO: 101.5 BB (VPIP: 26.19, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 5.88, Hands: 44)
BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 18.75, PFR: 15.63, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 32)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A T

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB calls 0.5 BB, Hero raises to 3 BB, SB calls 2 BB

Flop: (6 BB, 2 players) 6 3 K
SB checks, Hero?

Very dry board again, I don't see worse hands calling me, check back then and call pretty much any Turn?


3)
PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 115 BB (VPIP: 27.37, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 13.51, Hands: 99)
Hero (UTG): 265 BB
CO: 51.5 BB (VPIP: 19.23, PFR: 11.54, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 78)
BTN: 102.5 BB (VPIP: 23.81, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 23)
SB: 113.5 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 21.43, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 42)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q A

Hero raises to 3 BB, CO calls 3 BB, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (10.5 BB, 3 players) 3 J 8
Hero?

C/c, b/c, b/f?

I have no reads on any villain in all the spots.

Last edited by 1MrPiter; 03-19-2017 at 11:01 AM.
NL2, flop cbet Quote
03-19-2017 , 11:08 AM
1. It's NL2, and you have TPTK vs fish, of course you should cbet, they will call with a lot of crap
2. You can go either way, but I'm cbetting there most of the time, just to avoid guessing on the later streets. And you can continue betting on many turns


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NL2, flop cbet Quote
03-19-2017 , 12:36 PM
H1 3 valuebets.
H2 good bluff with BDFD
H3 looks like x/f flop.
NL2, flop cbet Quote
03-19-2017 , 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MrPiter
1)

PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 139.5 BB (VPIP: 22.73, PFR: 18.18, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 23)
Hero (BTN): 119.5 BB
SB: 173.5 BB (VPIP: 43.24, PFR: 21.62, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 37)
BB: 99 BB (VPIP: 22.58, PFR: 19.35, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 32)
UTG: 104 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 22)
MP: 122.5 BB (VPIP: 10.00, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 10)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q A

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.5 BB, SB calls 2 BB, fold

Flop: (6 BB, 2 players) 4 K A
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (6 BB, 2 players) 8
SB bets 4 BB, Hero calls 4 BB

River: (14 BB, 2 players) 3
SB bets 8 BB, Hero calls 8 BB

SB shows J K (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 36%, Flop 18%, Turn 11%)
Hero shows Q A (One Pair, Aces)
(Pre 64%, Flop 82%, Turn 89%)
Hero wins 29 BB


Do you cbet flop for value? I feel like I don't really need to protect my hand as the board is very dry and if I bet then I never get called by pocket pairs or gutshots and I want them to turn these hands into bluff on Turn and River. Do you raise River?

2)

PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 56 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
Hero (BB): 127.5 BB
UTG: 251.5 BB (VPIP: 41.38, PFR: 21.05, 3Bet Preflop: 12.00, Hands: 59)
MP: 79 BB (VPIP: 31.43, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 35)
CO: 101.5 BB (VPIP: 26.19, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 5.88, Hands: 44)
BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 18.75, PFR: 15.63, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 32)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A T

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB calls 0.5 BB, Hero raises to 3 BB, SB calls 2 BB

Flop: (6 BB, 2 players) 6 3 K
SB checks, Hero?

Very dry board again, I don't see worse hands calling me, check back then and call pretty much any Turn?


3)
PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 115 BB (VPIP: 27.37, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 13.51, Hands: 99)
Hero (UTG): 265 BB
CO: 51.5 BB (VPIP: 19.23, PFR: 11.54, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 78)
BTN: 102.5 BB (VPIP: 23.81, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 23)
SB: 113.5 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 21.43, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 42)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q A

Hero raises to 3 BB, CO calls 3 BB, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (10.5 BB, 3 players) 3 J 8
Hero?

C/c, b/c, b/f?

I have no reads on any villain in all the spots.
As a rule of thumb, I'd suggest not showing the end result / spoiler because it doesn't really help with gameplay.

i.e. You would be more happy to be RESULT oriented rather than outcome dependent. If you played the way which has the most odds of winning, the outcome is irrelevant IN THE LONG RUN.
NL2, flop cbet Quote
03-19-2017 , 02:54 PM
Hey teslanikola, could you please stop quoting the entire post. Just quote parts of it that are relevant to your comments. It makes it hard for mobile users. Thanks
NL2, flop cbet Quote
03-19-2017 , 03:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by teslanikola
As a rule of thumb, I'd suggest not showing the end result / spoiler because it doesn't really help with gameplay.

i.e. You would be more happy to be RESULT oriented rather than outcome dependent. If you played the way which has the most odds of winning, the outcome is irrelevant IN THE LONG RUN.
I know that, and I am not outcome dependent, otherwise I would not post here. PT4 just adds the result and I did not even notice tbh. I want to understand the game much better and improve my play.
NL2, flop cbet Quote
03-19-2017 , 04:23 PM
100% c-bet the first and second flops. On the 1st you're losing value from all Ax, Kx, and giving free cards to gutshots too. On the 2nd, its incredibly dry so he will fold a lot to c-bets. Backdoor clubs doesn't even matter, I'm only checking second pairs on that flop.

I think you need to do more work on c-betting and poker in general if you are even questioning these c-bets. Search pokerbank on youtube, good place to start for these things. Also flopzilla is good to find out how well ranges connect with flops.
NL2, flop cbet Quote
03-19-2017 , 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALongmuir
On the 2nd, its incredibly dry so he will fold a lot to c-bets. Backdoor clubs doesn't even matter, I'm only checking second pairs on that flop.
I realize he folds a lot but he only folds worse hands. Would you fold any better hand here?
NL2, flop cbet Quote
03-19-2017 , 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MrPiter
I realize he folds a lot but he only folds worse hands. Would you fold any better hand here?
You're right, he may fold nothing better. But against a conservative 30% range (could be way larger), villain has 52% equity vs our hand. If Villain is calling us with anything down low pairs (e.g. 22) and gutshots, they're folding 54% of the time. A 50%-60% cbet will be +EV, and a fantastic result against this range with so much equity and even with these calls with have decent equity with overcards.

Yeah, we can catch some bluffs OTT but it's not as profitable and will be -EV against some players.
NL2, flop cbet Quote
03-19-2017 , 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALongmuir
You're right, he may fold nothing better. But against a conservative 30% range (could be way larger), villain has 52% equity vs our hand. If Villain is calling us with anything down low pairs (e.g. 22) and gutshots, they're folding 54% of the time.
30% range when he cold calls SB preflop?
I don't understand the second part. Where does that 54% come from?

Last edited by 1MrPiter; 03-19-2017 at 05:54 PM.
NL2, flop cbet Quote
03-19-2017 , 05:50 PM
V likely does not fold better otf. But when he folds worse he folds some equity. Ott V already will fold some pairs thats why BD equity is important when choosing hands for bluff. It enables you bluffing more runouts.
Besides prefering BD equity hands prevents you from overbluff flop I kinda doubt that 100% cb flop is correct.
NL2, flop cbet Quote
03-19-2017 , 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MrPiter
30% range when he cold calls SB preflop?
I don't understand the second part. Where does that 54% come from?
I'm giving SB a 30% range that he limp/calls. I would say on average that's probably about right. The 54% comes from Flopzilla, it basically tells you what % of the range hits that flop, and you can filter what he calls/folds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamway99
V likely does not fold better otf. But when he folds worse he folds some equity. Ott V already will fold some pairs thats why BD equity is important when choosing hands for bluff. It enables you bluffing more runouts.
Besides prefering BD equity hands prevents you from overbluff flop I kinda doubt that 100% cb flop is correct.
I agree with the backdoor equity as we can barrel some turns. But on most dry flops it isn't that relevant as we have so much fold equity, there's not much need to 'select' hands to bluff with. At 2NL players won't be adapting so how much we bluffs on c-bets by calling lighter.

SBs range can hit pretty much any card OTF and OTT. Say SB never bluffs OTT we are making a pretty big mistake when calling. The EV of the c-bet is positive. Not c-betting is going to cause some mistakes which could make it -EV (Too complicated to calculate). When we have incredible post-flop skills and hand reading abilties then yes maybe not-cbetting is better, but at 2NL we are no way near that level.
NL2, flop cbet Quote

      
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