someone needs to infiltrate the pokerai restricted forum.

Is there a thread at 2+2 that goes into detail about steps that poker sites can take to actively make things more difficult for bots? If not, perhaps we should start one with concrete suggestions that we can refer the sites to. The fact is there are a lot of great minds here and if we put our heads together we should be able to come up with some pretty good recommendations for poker sites to implement. We are also a lot more motivated financially to help to solve this problem than are the small security teams at poker sites who are paid hourly regardless of their level of success.

For example, one obvious idea is that all poker sites should be sharing the names and all personal details (addresses, IP addresses) of the bot operators that they catch. I know that they can still get different identities for sign ups, but this would make it more of a hassle at least. This would be in the interest of all sites to help share this information in the same way that Vegas casinos used to share details of card counters.

Yeah good idea. Well no doubt the botters have infiltrated these forums. Notice all the new posters in this thread. It's not like they don't have a lot of free time once they get their cash cow operating. If they are trusted posters then they can become involved in Internet's private discussion on detection and exploitation of the bots.

from pokerai

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...01/index2.html

I remember reading the above thread at the time (2 years ago) in which Indiana attempts to morally justify his cheating. Makes for interesting reading with the benefit of hindsight, particually the part where he argues that bots are not bad for the game...

Were you playing full ring or short table? It makes sense how the 30NL games are total rock gardens now where you literally never get action. Also the table averages even at 6max are so low now, you would think the only people that would sit at the average table would be a bot or a hardcore player trying to win the stupid rake races that the skins run.

This forum is about mid stakes, so you should move up to 3/6 and 5/10, which is what we are talking about. I find there is abundant action in these games and they are not at all rock gardens. Players with a vpip of 20 or less are rare, and I think the average is close to 30. Just what you were hoping for. See you soon.

Is this midstakes? Maybe I don't understand terms like nl20 and 30 well?

No wonder the games have got exponentially worse last year(s) as there's more and more bots in addition to the games getting tougher naturally. There are forums for the bot builders where they actually discuss how to not get caught.. This is retarded.

But shouldn't there be a decent chance that the bot-accounts names will now be unveiled and brought to justice? Isn't that a fraud or whatever? It would be retarded if these people can get away from stealing significant amounts of money.

Its OK guys, they have dealt with it ... ORLY! The bots names are not even mentioned in this thread, but they have dealt with the case anyway. Move along, nothing to see here etc.

nl50 or less is micro. nl100 and 200 are small. 400 - 1000 medium. 2000+ high.

reading this makes my blood boil, such scum.

there are obv different kinds of bots. I assume it's like in our poker universe.. 80-90% of the bots are losing or only winning in the micros. Bu there has been numerous bots in the last months / (maybe years) that are winning decently at msnl.

I think we have to do the best we can, but I doubt there will be a good solution for us. Those people are pretty smart and they found a way to make 'alot' of money. This can only lead to a continuing war between the IT specialists of the networks and the botters - and there will be a pretty obvious winner.

Sent an e-mail y-day, haven't got any answer yet. Gonna send them link to that pokerai forum and try to highlight few points how this gonna affect in industry in a long term. Gonna e-mail to my affiliate and VIP manager too. I think its important to write on your own words, so it wouldn't considered as a spam so easily. Wouldn't be surprised at all though, if these bots comes from inside, keeps games going on, takes money from the customers to the house.

This is what I wrote to Betsafe support (edited out some details):

Hi there,

Are you aware of the fact that it's extremely likely that you have bots (computer programs utilizing artificial intelligence) playing in your poker cash games?
I can name more than 10 players that are very, very likely to be bots. Why?
Fist off, they never chat, never, no matter what you say to them in chat, they just won't respond.
Secondly, no-one knows these players although they play very regularily, tens of thousnads of hands every month. If they were humans, someone posting on big poker strategy forums just has to know
at least one of them, but no, no-one knows single one of them.
Thirdly, they all share the same exact somewhat unorthodox playing style. The devil is in the details and just to give you an example of their playing style: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
They all also share the same feature of XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

These bots are violating the terms of service of your website, and are cheating. Having a safe and fair game is of the utmost importance to me, and I urge you to take serious and immediate action against any and all accounts that violate the fairness and integrity of your games.

Some references for you to look at:
1.) http://pokerai.org/pj2/index.php?opt...tpage&Itemid=1
2.) http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/56...ngame-1112918/


Best Regards,

- XXXXX


Below is their response:


Hi XXXXX,

When it comes to any kind of fraud, bots or anything which is against network rules, ongame takes these kind of issues very seriously.

This is priority nro.1 to our risk department and ongames risk department to prevent any kind of illegal act, and to provide safe environment for players.

If you suspect any players to be bots, or collusion between players, please send us username(s) and our responsible department will handle these cases immediately.


Feel free to contact us again should you have any further questions.


Best regards,
Robert

Betsafe Customer Support
Safepay Malta Limited

Tel: 0044-808-2800 766

The obv next step is to email them the screennames of all the alleged bots I'm aware of. So far I have 12 screennames. Before emailing them I'll PM lnternet to ask for more screennames.