I never said that the contract was perfect, but it is a contract that I am happy with, the judges are happy with and yesterday I put it up so the bettors can comment and then change it the way they are happy with too (e.g. I have no problem changing the death in immediate family rule). The idea is not to enforce it in court, but to give the judges as much guideline as possible so they rule in the way we inteded beforehand. Obvsiouly there is always somethig else that can happen which is still not covered and then the judges will have to rule without concrete guidelines, but I believe we'd want to minimise those instances. Thought that was obvious and wanted by everyonem, given how much money is at stakes.

But lol at those saying that when it comes to the payout of $400k they would rather have vague short rules and rely on the complete descrition of 3 people they know nothing about, rather than agree on precise rules that all of the involved parties are happy with. This is so stupid that I am lacking for words. Potentially betting against such people gives me immense confidence that I am as EV in this bet as I thought I was and I feel like I should try everything to accomodate them. Unfortunately though I am going on holiday tomorrow and don't want to ruin it by spending hours on finalising this and arguing on the internet. Besides we still don't have a solution on the escrow issue. So as disappointing as it is, I will have to pull the plug on this and postpone it indefinitely. I know that there were other people who wanted to do a similar bet, so I am sure there will be someone else who will step in.

Thanks to all the people who helped out with this, I really appreciate it.

Add a jurisdiction clause to somewhere it can be enforced in the courts and you're probably good.

heh, yeah. you could say it's as stupid as asking people to escrow $400k with 1 person they know nothing about.


on a serious note, i'm not sure how you possibly expected to get this sorted in 10 days, but if you are confident you have a nice edge, rerun this later in the year when the wsop isn't a concern. get 5 reputable escrows locked down in advance who are happy to hold $60k-80k or so each, then repost. i'm sure we'd all like to see it run eventually.

I was not asking people to do anything, everyone needs to decide for himself what they want to do. Like with the above rules I said that I am happy to escrow this type of money with someone I deeply trust and who has dealt with similar sums of money for many years. Like with the rules posted above I put down my suggestions and when other people said they wanted more escrows, I did my best to try and accommodate that.

I did not expect to finalised everything in 10 days, but I did hope to get to a stage where all the major points have been clarified and I only have to deal with minor things from holiday. Unfortunately we are nowhere near that stage.

If no one else steps up to do this (which I doubt) then I will put up again, probably ~ end of June

I don't think I would require that. But if he provided names beforehand, people could actually check records to see that they are alive afterward. I'm not sure that I would actually suggest this though. But maybe it actually makes sense if he wants a death in the immediate family to be a cancellation.

And if he just decided not to cancel by not informing anyone of a death, at least then he wouldn't get the 21 day break that he wrote into the terms. I did not quote the whole section. Here it is:

Actually just realised I'll be on holiday End of August, so would post it start of August if no one else has done it until then and if my current heater does not continue

The point was that when you over-complicate things like that it raises more questions than answers and opens up many ways for either party angle and/or dispute the bet on some silly technicality. Obv you want to lay out clear terms for the actual bet and include obvious things like death in the family clauses, etc. There's no way you're going to be able to foresee all possible disputes and that's the whole point of having judges. As long as the judges are smart, understand gambling, and have integrity they're going to protect the interests of both parties much more than some super long and confusing contract with loose ends and unenforceable rules.

G. Postponements and Extensions
1. If Pokerstars and/or Zoom 500 is not available in the UK for a period of at least 12 hours, then the end of the Playing Period should be extended by the amount of time it was unavailable.
Does this mean if stars goes down while your sleeping or otherwise not playing you extend the bet?
2. If Xela is prevented from playing Zoom 500 by Pokerstars (e.g. due to an investigation) then the time period he was unable to play for this reason will be added at the end of the Playing Period. Xela needs to inform the judges of the reason of any investigation and no money can be paid out to Xela if the investigation is in relation to an offence against the rules of this contract. However the judges will not disclose this to anyone else unless Xela is found guilty by Pokerstars.
so if your account is locked because you did something egregious (i.e. colluded) during previous play that has nothing to do with the bet does this mean you get to pull out?
3. For every night that Xela is hospitalised there will be an extra 48 hours added to the end of the Playing Period. He will need to provide proof beyond reasonable doubt of his hospital stay.So if you check yourself into a mental hospital for two weeks does this mean four weeks are added to the bet?
4. If Xela is physically unable to play poker during a period in which he is not hospitalised (e.g. due to a broken right arm or temporary blindness) then the time period in which he was unable to play poker will be added to the end of the Playing Period. He will need to provide proof beyond reasonable doubt of his condition as soon as this is possible for him.Does being drunk and puking constitute "physically unable to play"
5. Xela is also allowed to take up to a total of 7 days on up 3 different occasions (i.e. a total of up to 7 days spread over up to 3 different occasions) off the bet due to illness (e.g. influenza, migraine, food poisoning) and for personal reason (e.g. severe illness of someone close, family problems, need of a friend). Any such time needs to be taken off in multiples of 24 hours and this time will be added to the end of the Playing Period. Xela needs to inform the judges of the exact start time and end time of this period in advance and he will not play any hands on Pokerstars during this period. As there is usually no material benefit for Xela to use this rule without cause, there is no need for him to provide proof. so basically you can take up to 7 days off for any reason you want? And you don't think that gives you a material benefit?

1. How do you know whether I would have liked to play or not?
2. You clearly did not read the terms, I loose the bet anyway if I am found by Stars to have colluded.
3. lol, not sure if serious? either you are levelling or this is so ridiculous on so many levels I don't even know where to start.
4. Not sure how I can prove beyone reasonable doubt that I have been puking (not to mention that I hardly drink). And before you come up with other silly examples like I said before there will always be borderline case where the judges will have to decide anyway, the rules are to reduce them. It is like saying one should not have laws in the country because they don't cover every eventuality.
5. Don't see how this gives me a material benefit, except mb the fact that I can take a holiday if I wanted, but it is not like I would have a better winrate because of this or that I would have to play less hands per day (mb you misunderstand something?). Also if I indeed decided to "abuse" this rule to take a holiday, then I would risk being in big trouble if I actually had an important need to take a few days off. And this rule was my suggestion, would have been prepared to discuss it as I would have been happy to discuss most other points.

Anyway, all academic now, there is no going back.

you're completely missing the point

fwiw when it comes to personal circumstances preventing play in these challenges (illness/personal events rather than site issues) I think it makes most sense to have no get-out clause. Just set the odds that reflect the chance of getting flu etc.

It would be a good idea to write a good contract so judges have guidelines not only for this bet but for future ones. It would make bets easier, faster and more transparent imo.

wtf just happened?

Dont know if this was discussed.

Can I bet on Xela?
At the same odds.

I am having a hard time understanding some of the posts in this thread.

The arguments against Xela making in depth rules is utterly absurd. Regardless of what is written, the judges are going to be able to pass judgement on any issue that may be suggested by the bettors. The list/rules are just a guideline, the final say is always going to be with the judges.

If you do decide to go ahead with this bet in future Xela, then make it as in depth as you want, maybe post a small summary for those wanting to risk $50k but who don't want to bother with the hassle of reading 1 A4 page of txt.

lol, glad to see poker still easy for some out there.

As several people have said, it absolutely makes sense to do the best possible to define the terms so as to give the judges the best sense of guidance.

Basically what is being set up is an arbitration with preset guidelines without any exclusive jurisdiction rule (though maybe many parties feel there should be an exclusive jurisdiction rule).

One thing I feel is an actual difficulty in this is that there are many bettors and therefore, it is difficult to negotiate the terms with many people making posts. If people are serious about this, it may make sense for 1 person or a small group of people to negotiate on the bettors' behalf. Then once terms are decided every bettor can decide in or out. The negotiator on behalf of the bettors can and probably should check in with the bettors from time to time during such negotiations.

Best I can think of given what has happened with this thus far.





Of course all of this is completely pointless for now if Xela has decided to defer this.