call turn, call any river.

River ?

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/11.../#post33609582

Is this a gimmick account to observe whether MHSFR and MSNL responses differ?

I don't really see a 21/17 calling pre with any hands that would be drawing on turn except for like ATss/ATdd/AQdd/ATdd/AJss. Therefore, I think his range is heavily weighted towards sets. It just seems RIO to call any lesser without a fish in the hand. Even if he was calling a wider range of SC's, I don't really see him 3betting the turn at these stacksizes. He'd have to think we're pretty FOS to do so, and even then, a lot of players default action is to call.

Raising turn is fine, but it's probably best to fold to the 3bet.

His bet sizes look a bit like he's trying to buy you out of the pot. You've bullied him around a bit without showing a hand, so I could see him trying to make a stand when you showed weakness on the flop, so I could really see him bluffing here as it seems obvious you didn't hit. It's either that, he's semi-bluffing with a flush/straight flush draw, or slow-playing a set. As is, I wouldn't be folding. Jamming is bad because while it'll make him fold any draws, and you're only getting called by better unless you have a really aggressive image. Call turn, cry-call river as most have said.

Call turn call river and not be tooo happy about it. Fold now is too exploitable/nitty and even against a Villain you MAY perceive as not creative enough to have a 3b range that is not oversets, balance is still a concern/call down tip top of your range + you can't be 100% sure.

Oh and yeah jamming is terribad.

What's your balance on the river?
Are you raising turn with anything else?

haha I posted a hand in both just recently because I was curious. Dunno why you would need a gimmick account for this though ?!

Actually, i didnt know this thread. It's probably a reg on the table who had thought this hand interesting.

why hasnt anyone is this thread yet tried to prove the turn raise is bad? after all we dont have the nuts

Well, i rly wanted to, but then if villain is gonna think we are FOS(most likely) with this line, he's not just bluff 3betting us, he's gonna call us down very light with bluff catchers, so i think we have to raise for value.

well sometimes in poker you have to get yourself bluffraised of your hand, otherwise it is too hard to get a dynamic going. its a shame we have to fold 3 fours, but then again it is some sort of moral victory as we can wait.

oh and btw i would show ONE card.

doubt it, maybe someone on the rail though.