This was played on Bovada. I only say fish because of his sizing. This was his very first hand at the table.

Thoughts?


Hero (SB): $6,025 (301.3 bb)
BB: $2,000 (100 bb)
MP: $2,030 (101.5 bb)
CO: $2,098 (104.9 bb)
BTN: $5,067 (253.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K J
3 folds, Hero raises to $60, BB calls $40
Flop: ($120) K 8 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $80, BB raises to $360, Hero calls $280

Turn: ($840) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $1580, Hero?

I'm pretty sure I've lost more money than I've won calling here. These spots can obv be pretty easy once you've seen the guy play a few hands but unknown I really don't mind either way I guess.

I've never played a hand on bovada fwiw.

I wouldnt count on villain shutting down on turns so think the decision should be made on the flop

I think as spazzy as the fish are on bovada this is a fold. Unless u have seen him do wacky stuff and seen him show down crazy hands in spots like this then just fold. Way better spots imo.

Villain can have every 2 pr and even show up with better Kx. And yeah against that sizing on the flop make a decision right then what your plans are. And I play up to 5/10 on bovada but very little 10/20 fwiw. Looks to me like a 2 pr hand like 83s that a spazzy fish called with out of the blinds and doesn't want to get "sucked out on"

I think this is a fold as well. Seems like villain flopped 2pair to me. He just called your raising defending his bb and he raised you on the flop. Now he's betting big on the turn bc he doesn't want you to make a bigger 2 pair on him. That's what it screams to me just from my experience w players like this in live private games. Esp w ones that defend their bb alot.

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how did he suddenly switch from BB to BTN?

He is effectively the button so who cares?

button has 5000$, bb has 2000$

we cover

ldo

Wtf are you talking about? Everything says bb until the last river action. I get that it doesn't say all in when he shoves but I would have though our position amd the fact it's 5 handed and the action starts 3 folds was pretty obvious this was blind vs blind and since bb acts last on all betting streets he is the btn as far as all post flop decisions are concerned.

why would you say that? plenty of people give up when facing a large bet/call on a dry flop like this. it's also infrequent to face a 2x pot overbet on the turn, so what decision are you referring to? the decision to call a normal sized turn bet? or the decision to call a normal sized turn bet and a normal sized river bet? or the decision to call a 2x pot jam on the turn?

anyway unless 10/20 bovada fish play markedly diff than midstakes bovada fish this is a call. first it's probably still a theory call & i definitely wouldn't defend tighter than is theoretically sound, and second i'd probably overdefend a bit here anyway since you see weird merges from time to time.

i would say that we have to call the flop even though we are fairly likely to have to fold the turn if he continues firing huge. With no info on this guy I think we can power fold the turn and not think twice about it.

He doesn't even know if said villain is really a fish... And he bought in full. 1st hand at the table. And 5/10+ fish do play different than 2/4 fish on bovada IME....

fair enough, but i don't know that i've ever been at an anon table and seen a play like this and not had them turn out to be either a fish or, less often, a horrible nit. however i haven't played 10/20 in years so perhaps it's not my place to comment. if i saw this at 2/4 i'd say there was at least an 85%+ likelihood he wasn't a reg, and i can't imagine pop tendencies would change that much in a spot like this, but maybe i'm wrong

i only think this is so important because if you told me he was absolutely a reg i highly doubt he'd be showing up with enough air to want to defend adequately, but i'd never consider defending less than adequately if there was a reasonable chance he was a non-nit fish, and i'd overdefend if there was a good chance he was a non-nit fish. so since i don't know how well to assess his likelihood of being a non-nit fish, i suppose i'll just be boring and say defend adequately.

and it came to pass that i contributed nothing to this thread

How is it theoretically sound to call a pot size raise + 2x pot bet with this low in our range?

I wouldn't consult game theory to determine my strategy in this spot, but certainly you don't need to defend with worse than AK to make his line break even with a bluff.

I think there's a reasonable case to fold on the flop. I would certainly fold with KJo. With clubs I probably find a call and I definitely fold the turn. My calling range on the turn would be AA+, probably. I think its a spot where each strength of hand from KJ to KQ to AK to AA matters because there's a spaz/overplay factor. I choose AA because I think that factor increase when we block no ranks on the board, and also having some extra outs against kings up matters a lot when he has kings up so much of the time.

fwiw i misread the hand and thought the Hero checked the flop and was facing a 3x PSB.

i understand it's a PSR, but only bet/calling flop with TPGK seems out of whack to me... i assume you're only cbetting here like 1/3 of the time with a super polarized range?

Again I wouldn't consult game theory when determining my strategy vs this likely fish. I would probably call the flop raise with ak plus and kx with bfd. Clearly that's a narrower range than the top 33% or so required for GTO defense.