2-5 at the local casino. Game is pretty soft. I have about 1200 and cover villain, who told me that he used to play 10-25 and 25-50 when he was backed. I have played with him before and he's aggressive/crafty and a thinking player.

EP limps and the next guy makes it 10. Villain calls in the cutoff and I call on button with K4. My image is solid and I have won almost every pot where I put it a lot of chips. The blinds are in and the limper comes along so six of us look at a flop of

KT8. They check to me and I bet 25. Limper, raiser and cutoff call. 4 way turn.

8. I check it through.

River 5.

They check to me. It's an obvious bet, right? I fire 65 into 160. The first limper takes a while and folds. Raiser folds and then cutoff instantly raises to 250.

What say you?

Thanks in advance.

Fold pre.

Check flop.

Turn is okay.

River is a check back.

AP, I call.

Fold pre? Are you kidding?

I'd always bet flop here.
Can arguably bet turn for value and check back unimproved otr as well, checking is completely fine though. Like the river bet as played, and no way I'm folding to his raise.
He shouldn't have a c/r range here, so when he does I'm weighting him heavily towards whiffed draws that "picked up on your weakness" of betting less than 50% pot otr.

We only need to be good ~33% of the time in order to call profitably.

Fold pre looks good.

Well, considering that you butchered every street of the hand postflop besides the turn, you should seriously reconsider overcalling with K4 preflop.

K4s never makes the nuts on any board, and being able to draw to/make the nuts is one of the most important things in deep-stacked poker. Additionally, considering how bad players are at 2-5, I'm sure everyone else who has K5s+/K9o is going to call a raise, so every time you flop a King, you're going to lose money. You can't bluff postflop if the flop goes 5-6 ways with K high. You're basically hoping to hit a hand that isn't going to be dominated by another one and lose your money.

Don't call pre just because "Ooooh I have position and a pretty hand." Unless you have a seriously massive edge on the table (lots of players like to think they do), this is a clear-cut -EV call.

I'm quite sure we can make money here, given a few assumptions. These assumptions include the following:

Blinds aren't going to be 3-betting much.
EP won't be limp-raising much.
We will make much better postflop decisions than our opponents.

Given all this, I'm quite certain calling > folding.
These assumptions are rarely true, but if they are here I don't mind OP's flat preflop.

As for checking versus betting the flop in a typical 2/5 livegame, I think we should bet and I don't think it's remotely close.

A592J


What is the nuts on this board?

Is that the best counter argument you have? That's grasping for straws. When I said never, I didn't mean it literally. You can say Q4cc makes the nuts on AK9cc, but that's a pretty moot point and insignificant

AK9ccc*

Fold pre or 3b. Never a call. If u r calling should be folding

What did he 3b ur 25 to on the flop?

Did you read the post? Nobody raised my flop bet. And if they did, that would not be a 3bet

If you guys aren't calling a minraise on the button with K4s in what is going to be a multiway pot, you must have zero faith in your postflop skills.

3b iso pre, isolate. Exploit him, and outplay him postflop

Says the guy who butchered every postflop street except the turn lmfao. Believe it or not, you dont have a massive an edge on the table as you think you do. Everyone likes to think they have a massive edge on lol live poker to play spots like these, but the reality is they don't. Im confident most winning players would make a -EV call here, except for the crushers

I would probably call, but I wouldn't be making anywhere near as many postflop mistakes as you would, and would maximize EV more than you could

Please explain your rationale for wanting to check through on the flop and making sure zero money goes in when you flop top pair and the second nut flush draw

I could go in-depth if I wanted to, but to put it simply this hand is a 2-street game. You're not really afraid of any turn cards, so when you close the action OTF, checking here makes sense since you're going to have to check a street somewhere anyway. This is a flop you're also going to get raised on a lot, so why not take the free card IP. Plus when you check this flop back, nobody will really put you on this hand and deception goes a long way in many aspects of a player's game. Players will bluff you way less, hero call incorrectly say when K rolls off OTT or OTR, hero call incorrectly more in general, etc. strengthens our checking range. Just some points why checking > betting imo

Betting because "oh i haz TP and FD" in a SIX-way pot is so 2013/2014 and really isn't a valid reason to bet

Results. I called and beat his 97.

Don't listen to people complain about preflop.

I think its fine, except I think the river is a check. What do you expect to get called with on the river except a T? A better king will call you, an 8 will probably raise you. There are a lot of missed draws that will fold. I guess you might get hero called with a mid pair or a T if they think you missed a draw.

I would call the villains river raise because his check/raise doesn't really make sense.

Yes, exactly. It's nearly impossible for someone to have me beat if you consider how the action went. The only better kings are AK, KQ and KJ. I would have heard from those. Same with an 8. Nobody in this game (and a lot of 2-5 games) is checking trip 8s to me on the end, especially after the turn checked through. The people who play in this game are not tricky--they just pay off. When it's clear that I am not losing, it's best to just bet the river and let them find something to call with. You'd be surprised how often it happens. Especially if it's a small bet in relation to the size of the pot. They'll talk themselves into calling 25% pot with mid pair, Ace high, etc.