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Medium Stakes PL/NL Discussions about medium stakes pot-limit and no-limit hold'em (2-4 to 5-10)

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Old 02-28-2017, 12:14 PM   #1
ORANGEFAN
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2/5 Live Cash Full Ring Hand Analysis

First time/long time. Interested in feedback on hand recently played in live setting.

Effective stacks $1,000.

Hero (UTG)
Villain is the SB (50 year old Euro that appears to be respected in the game)

I'm dealt JJ and choose to raise gun to standard opening in this game, $20. Villain flats out of the SB and BB folds. HU to the flop.

923

Villain leads for $50. We call.

Turn: 10

Villain leads $175. We call.

River 2

Villain checks. We?

Villain is giving off zero tells and we don't have a lot to draw on from previous showdowns. Can this be a hand like 9-10 that was playing fast and is now c/c or c/f river? Is this a bet from hero as played? Would we consider playing things differently on flop/turn? Thanks in advance for reviewing and sharing thoughts.
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Old 02-28-2017, 07:39 PM   #2
chytry
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Re: 2/5 Live Cash Full Ring Hand Analysis

Can the villain have any reads on you?

Were you going to call down btw?
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Old 03-01-2017, 09:15 AM   #3
ORANGEFAN
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Re: 2/5 Live Cash Full Ring Hand Analysis

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Originally Posted by chytry View Post
Can the villain have any reads on you?

Were you going to call down btw?
I should have added that I had just moved from the 'must move' table to the main game when this hand happened. I have very minimal history with this V. It's possible he could have a read, but I leaned towards him using my image as a decent reg as he played his own hand strength.

Your question regarding the call down is the exact question I should have asked myself on the turn. If my answer is yes, do we favor a raise on the turn? Unfortunately, I can't say that I would have called or not. I think I was leaning toward a reason to fold.
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Old 03-01-2017, 06:47 PM   #4
chytry
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Re: 2/5 Live Cash Full Ring Hand Analysis

Rising the turn makes no sense to me. Why would you do it?
Donking UTG raiser on a super dry flop is strange to start with.
I check because what do with get value from?
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Old 03-01-2017, 08:46 PM   #5
ivanz33
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Re: 2/5 Live Cash Full Ring Hand Analysis

Raising turnis a bad play. You are either easy behind or easy ahead so no point of raising it.. the 2 is a good casts for you because now you counterfeit all his 2 pairs... i think of he has a blast would bet river for value and not check it so i would bet around 200 on river try to get value fromA9 suited K9Q9 910 etc...
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Old 03-02-2017, 10:02 AM   #6
ORANGEFAN
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Re: 2/5 Live Cash Full Ring Hand Analysis

Appreciate the feedback. I agree that raising turn would have been a mistake. I chose to check the river here, and lost to a strangely played KK. I am probably always betting this river for value. But, got gun shy when this V bets into us this strong flop/turn
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Old 03-03-2017, 12:54 PM   #7
chytry
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Re: 2/5 Live Cash Full Ring Hand Analysis

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Originally Posted by ivanz33 View Post
Raising turnis a bad play. You are either easy behind or easy ahead so no point of raising it.. the 2 is a good casts for you because now you counterfeit all his 2 pairs... i think of he has a blast would bet river for value and not check it so i would bet around 200 on river try to get value fromA9 suited K9Q9 910 etc...
I doubt he plays TP often enough like this.
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Old 03-03-2017, 05:21 PM   #8
ORANGEFAN
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Re: 2/5 Live Cash Full Ring Hand Analysis

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Originally Posted by chytry View Post
I doubt he plays TP often enough like this.
I played with the V again last night. He raised $20 from UTG with QQ. Button makes it $70 and he just calls. Flop 9 high rainbow and he leads for $75. The V just calls. Turn pairs bottom. He leads $150. Button is all in for $220 more after a minute and a half tank. Our V makes a comment to the effect of 'what the hell took you so long to get it in' and rolls in the calling chips. He shows QQ, button has KK and holds.

He later went broke leading into the preflop raiser with K9 on a 9 high board for his last couple hundred.

There are not a lot of guys who lead into the raiser in this game. In 3 examples now, he has done this with TP/OP.

I was curious to see if he checks river with the QQ as he did with the KK in the hand played vs me.
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Old 03-06-2017, 12:16 AM   #9
OldEnglishBulldog
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Re: 2/5 Live Cash Full Ring Hand Analysis

Villain has now potted the flop and overbite pot on turn. When the board pairs he slows. I think his range of made hands that have us beat includes 99, 33, 22, TT. All those hands are likely to defend.
The hands that might think they are value betting are 9T, A9, k9

The misses or over played hands would be likely 45suited, 44-88, and maybe AK played badly.

Of the hands that have it the majority of them hands in range are not calling a large value bet or are re raising. I think this has got to be a check behind. If we bet $275 and villain jams his remaining stack we probably barf in our mouth a little and fold.
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Old 03-06-2017, 12:24 AM   #10
OldEnglishBulldog
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Re: 2/5 Live Cash Full Ring Hand Analysis

I just read the rest of the threads. Normally i would give a little more time before giving the results as they can effect your answers.
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Old 03-08-2017, 09:59 PM   #11
CChinaman
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Re: 2/5 Live Cash Full Ring Hand Analysis

Omg just VB river small- induce a check raise bluff and call off.
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Old 03-19-2017, 05:45 AM   #12
valiantcalls
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Re: 2/5 Live Cash Full Ring Hand Analysis

I've been in a very similar hand heads up against the small blind when I had JJ and small blind leads 2/3rds pot on flop and river, was QQ. Luckily I hit J on turn.
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:30 PM   #13
Crobinso89
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Re: 2/5 Live Cash Full Ring Hand Analysis

Yeah most times these weird leads are often too pair but it's not usually a lot lead and turn overpay lead. I would be confused and it's definitely polarizing. It is complete air or monster. River checking wouldn't make me think a boat. And river check after bombing two streets make me think value. I prefer a river check back. See what he is doing it with. We still have plenty of showdown against weird 9s and 10s.

But now you know. He is a dumb donk better with top pairs or over pairs. Let him trap himself when you flop good and just freaking bomb rivers on him when you do.
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:07 PM   #14
Linkavich2424
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Re: 2/5 Live Cash Full Ring Hand Analysis

Bomb the river like Hiroshima
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