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Medium-High Stakes PL/NL Discussions about medium-high stakes pot-limit and no-limit hold'em (2-4 and up)

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Old 05-09-2017, 10:46 AM   #1
lolthatwasfunny
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NL200 sizing pre ?

$1/$2 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players


Hero (SB): $252 (126 bb)
BB: $283.02 (141.5 bb)
MP: $213.06 (106.5 bb)
CO: $376.66 (188.3 bb)
BTN: $42.30 (21.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K A
MP raises to $6, CO folds, BTN raises to $42.30 and is all-in, Hero calls $41.30, BB folds, MP calls $36.30

Flop: ($128.90) 8 2 8 (3 players, 1 is all-in)
Hero checks, MP checks

Turn: ($128.90) 9 (3 players, 1 is all-in)
Hero checks, MP bets $48, Hero raises to ?

Not sure here about my 4betsizing. I dont have any history with EP.
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Old 05-09-2017, 12:52 PM   #2
Minatorr
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Re: NL200 sizing pre ?

Just rip it in pre
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Old 05-10-2017, 11:08 AM   #3
lnternet
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Re: NL200 sizing pre ?

No Minatorr, that's a mistake.
With 3>21 you don't want any 4b range, you just flat top x%.

The reason this is better than jamming is
1) You can call + fold to jam with some hands, such as AQ or 99, that you couldn't +EV jam yourself
2) MP can't overall with weak hands, as his pot odds aren't good enough



Flop as played is interesting, as I think MP's range is really difficult to estimate. But I think it's safe to exclude KK+, perhaps AK, so we should have a cbet on this texture even in protected pot with ~all hands. Size should be tiny, 10bb is enough I think.

Turn, I think you keep checking now, yeah.

When he bets, just fold. He can't bluff since it's a protected pot. I know some guys are dumb and bet a FD here anyhow to then lose the pot to the all-in guy even when you fold. But he has so few potential draws. Looks like 99 or QQ mostly.
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Old 05-11-2017, 06:13 AM   #4
Minatorr
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Re: NL200 sizing pre ?

Some interesting points, Internet. I think flatting with your entire range is an option. Wasn't something I thought about.

I am pretty sure that ripping in AQ/99 would still be +EV jams pre though.

I think you're going to get put in awkward spots if you flat here with your entire range thoughh. Let's say you call with AJs+/88+. Are you folding 1010 to a jam? If he jams AJs+/1010+, we are 41% vs his range and should be calling. If his jamming range is really nutted, we should be folding. I just think OOP, we are going to likely make a lot more mistakes if we create a flatting range. It's also pretty hard for the original raiser to make any mistakes postflop IP.

Also, having a 4-bet jam or folding range is pretty interesting. We can get him to fold a lot of hands that have 45-55% equity against us, or sometimes even the better hand.

When we 4-bet jam pre our entire range, the original raiser is likely going to make more mistakes by overfolding or overcalling. When we flat our entire range, it's super easy for the original raiser to not really make mistakes. He can get away from his hand postflop, not get stacked when we are nutted, take free cards IP, etc.

Last edited by Minatorr; 05-11-2017 at 06:22 AM.
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