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Old 12-25-2008, 08:21 PM   #101
Gary Stevenson
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Re: I got banned for LIFE from Foxwoods (tl;dr)

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Originally Posted by HEK View Post
I'm writing a letter to foxwoods which should be finished within the next day or so. I'm sending that regardless of any other move I may make in conjunction with it.

What should my NEXT move/moves be? Many of you provided some excellent advice. So should I...


Start an online petition? (do you REALLY think this will do any good?)
i doubt this would do anything, but i'd sign it if you'd think it would help

Hire a lawyer to contact foxwoods?
probably the best plan if you want to continue playing at fw for your main source of income anytime soon

Call the gaming commission (or have a lawyer do so)?
lawyer i'd guess

I need to make sure my next step is the right one. I don't want to piss them off and make them ignore my case for 3 years. It's a fine line I think.
good luck todd

Last edited by Gary Stevenson; 12-25-2008 at 08:38 PM.
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Old 12-25-2008, 08:23 PM   #102
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Re: I got banned for LIFE from Foxwoods (tl;dr)

thanks man
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Old 12-25-2008, 08:29 PM   #103
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Re: I got banned for LIFE from Foxwoods (tl;dr)

the casino floor people are straight up dumb. they have something against internet pros and want to prove they're superior or something along those lines. honestly, when you haven't seen the amount of hands the average online pro has seen, you simply don't know anything period.
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Old 12-25-2008, 08:30 PM   #104
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Re: I got banned for LIFE from Foxwoods (tl;dr)

yeah I mean the reason I didn't try to fight it more than I have is because I played there like 1 or 2 times a month and I played 2/5 there mostly.

since it's your main source of income I would absolutely hire a lawyer.
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Old 12-25-2008, 08:39 PM   #105
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Re: I got banned for LIFE from Foxwoods (tl;dr)

I've never hired a lawyer. I don't even know where to begin to look for a case like this.
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Old 12-25-2008, 08:54 PM   #106
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Re: I got banned for LIFE from Foxwoods (tl;dr)

I'd give it a couple weeks or so to let things cool off then come back and talk to the manager. In the meantime see if you can get ahold of the FM that was there as well as other players who were there during the whole thing. At the very least talk to some friends that play or work there who can vouche for you. I think if you play it cool, come back and explain to them your situation and how you play for a living and treat poker as a profession they will realize that you are an asset to their business as well.


Like you said, the key here is not to piss them off. I was temporarily 86ed from a card club in northern california for some stupid drama not unlike your situation but after personally talking to the owner and telling him about playing poker as a profession he let me back. If the above doesn't work then I would get ahold of lawyer and contact gaming comission. GL

Last edited by Delecto; 12-25-2008 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 12-25-2008, 09:02 PM   #107
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Re: I got banned for LIFE from Foxwoods (tl;dr)

HEK, I wouldn't try the lawyer thing first. You send something to Foxwoods thru an attorney and its going right to their legal dept and then you have no shot IMO.

It sounds like you played there awhile- surely you know someone who might give you a sympathetic ear. I recommend writing a brief summary and asking one of your buddies to get it into this persons hands. Enclose your phone number and ask them to call you to discuss it further. I would also recommend soft playing or eliminating the "Frankie cheats" thing from your summary. It sounds like Foxwoods is incompetent but you don't want to put a potential ally on the defensive. You don't want to come off as a "Man, your company blows, can you help me out.".
Stress the making a living, and that you were confused by the floors guidance, and were pissed that the guy stiffed you. Don't put Foxwoods in a bad light, even though the screwed up. Asking someone for help while dumping on their employer isn't the way to go.

If this doesn't work, then try the lawyer. You also might want to have one review what you write before sending it so that if you do have to retain an attorney for this afterwards, nothing you wrote will hurt you.

Good Luck and keep us posted.
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Old 12-25-2008, 09:05 PM   #108
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Re: I got banned for LIFE from Foxwoods (tl;dr)

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fwiw, the my opponent's name who backed out of playing me the $2000 after agreeing to the equity chop is Mike Dentale. He's a regular player at Borgata in A.C.
wow...now it makes all sense...Flowers is a very shady character himself, but combine that with Dentale and you get a picture of a combo that is Cheato Priom...I have played with Dentale quite a bit at Borgata..both in tourneys and in lots of 5/10 cash games...he is one of the shadiest characters and biggest douche bags that I have ever seen in AC, and THAT is some statement!
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Old 12-25-2008, 09:14 PM   #109
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Re: I got banned for LIFE from Foxwoods (tl;dr)

its def easier to be lifetiltless in live games, because with a bigger winning rate... well if you get 15bb/100 its not too hard to win over 80% of your sessions. While thats getting harder and harder to do online with so much variance and parity in higher games. Also, the way most games are a lot more passive... the passiveness usually allows you to reduce variance as well, no matter your winrate.
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Old 12-25-2008, 09:28 PM   #110
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Re: I got banned for LIFE from Foxwoods (tl;dr)

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Originally Posted by SanderJonez View Post
the casino floor people are straight up dumb. they have something against internet pros and want to prove they're superior or something along those lines. honestly, when you haven't seen the amount of hands the average online pro has seen, you simply don't know anything period.
Has nothing to do with "internet pros". The foxwoods floor is so stupid I doubt they even know you can play poker on the internet.
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Old 12-25-2008, 09:32 PM   #111
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Re: I got banned for LIFE from Foxwoods (tl;dr)

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I've never hired a lawyer. I don't even know where to begin to look for a case like this.
Why don't you talk to John the lawyer or Dave Vogl? Since they both play poker at foxwoods , I'm sure they'll be very understanding of your situation.
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Old 12-25-2008, 09:40 PM   #112
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Re: I got banned for LIFE from Foxwoods (tl;dr)

I would have a group of your buddies (3-5 people) who are regulars their and who know you well go talk to the management or security. They could explain to them that they've played with you a lot and explain how its your profession and you have never had any troubles in the past etc. By doing this you will know exactly how serious the casino is with the ban and be able to react accordingly. I believe its important that they see regulars who generate alot of rake for the house to talk to them and they might soften the punishment. Hopefully every thing works out for you. GL
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Old 12-25-2008, 09:49 PM   #113
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Re: I got banned for LIFE from Foxwoods (tl;dr)

Get Gene Todd's lawyer.
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Old 12-25-2008, 10:01 PM   #114
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Re: I got banned for LIFE from Foxwoods (tl;dr)

I don't know wtf I'm talking about, but seems like if you're gonna get a lawyer, you should do that before anything else. Like seems silly to write a letter to them and then hire a lawyer instead of the other way around.
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Old 12-25-2008, 10:23 PM   #115
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Re: I got banned for LIFE from Foxwoods (tl;dr)

Noah, yes. Can someone help me contact Gene Todd?
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Old 12-25-2008, 11:22 PM   #116
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Re: I got banned for LIFE from Foxwoods (tl;dr)

I would have probably been arrested as well as perma-banned when that dick got in my face. I don't know how people can be such pricks.

anyways, sorry that happened, and I am sure you will get reinstated in a month or so.

Did you HAVE to sign the agreement that you would be arrested? I mean, if your getting banned, why sign anything?
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Old 12-25-2008, 11:24 PM   #117
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Re: I got banned for LIFE from Foxwoods (tl;dr)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HEK View Post
I'm writing a letter to foxwoods which should be finished within the next day or so. I'm sending that regardless of any other move I may make in conjunction with it.

What should my NEXT move/moves be? Many of you provided some excellent advice. So should I...


Start an online petition? (do you REALLY think this will do any good?)

Hire a lawyer to contact foxwoods?

Call the gaming commission (or have a lawyer do so)?

I need to make sure my next step is the right one. I don't want to piss them off and make them ignore my case for 3 years. It's a fine line I think.


I would call the President of the Casino's office and ask for a 5 min meeting and plead my case to him.

If he won't see you ask for the head of Security.

Your main argument should be that fact that the pit boss ok'ed the deal and you followed the proper channels BEFORE you agreed to anything.

Every Casino must be licensed by some government body so use this to your advantage (threaten to complain to that body) unless you are allowed your 5 minute meeting.

Keep pushing and don't go away till they take you seriously.

I would also threaten to go to the local press with this unless your given a fair hearing.
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Old 12-25-2008, 11:53 PM   #118
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Re: I got banned for LIFE from Foxwoods (tl;dr)

Since villain didn't pay you, you didn't even do an equity chop.

So they okayed it, then you didn't do it, then you got banned for it!

Might be a bit of an argument in your favor.
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Old 12-26-2008, 01:05 AM   #119
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Re: I got banned for LIFE from Foxwoods (tl;dr)

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Since villain didn't pay you, you didn't even do an equity chop.

So they okayed it, then you didn't do it, then you got banned for it!

Might be a bit of an argument in your favor.
Thats a good point. They banned you for something you never did!
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Old 12-26-2008, 01:09 AM   #120
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Re: I got banned for LIFE from Foxwoods (tl;dr)

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Even without the story, if you had showed me that picture, my first thought would have been "sleazeball".
wow, racist.

my first thought was fish.
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Old 12-26-2008, 01:11 AM   #121
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Re: I got banned for LIFE from Foxwoods (tl;dr)

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wow, racist.

my first thought was fish.
pretty sure you could make that guys skin albino and he would still look like a scumbag.
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Old 12-26-2008, 01:38 AM   #122
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Re: I got banned for LIFE from Foxwoods (tl;dr)

Seriously, does anyone read my ****in posts? LIFETIME BAN FROM FOXWOODS = YOU CAN STILL GO THERE WHENEVER YOU WANT. THEY DONT CHECK THEIR "LIFETIME BANLIST" IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. IVE BEEN THERE 50 TIMES IN THE PAST 4 YEARS SINCE IVE BEEN BANNED AND I WASN'T EVEN 21 AT THE TIME.

Seriously, its like THE most incompetent place in the ****ing world. Just go back tomorrow, I ****ing promise nobody will say a god damn word.

Seriously HEK, the absolute worst thing that can happen if you just go back, is they kick you out again! That happened to me once...out of 50 times....and it had nothing to do with my lifetime ban, its cause my ID was expired.

So seriously, maybe just try going back? I'm like 95% sure nobody will kick you out or even speak to you about the incident. I honestly would be shocked if they even saved those pictures they take after they "lifetime ban" you. I can tell you for damn sure that they don't have any "facial recognition software" like they claim.....except the porn the surveillance is watching while people steal chips off other ppl's stacks. seriously, if you had one word to describe foxwoods what would it be? incompetent. why are you so afraid to just go back?

Last edited by HIV; 12-26-2008 at 01:47 AM.
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Old 12-26-2008, 01:47 AM   #123
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Re: I got banned for LIFE from Foxwoods (tl;dr)

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Seriously, does anyone read my ****in posts? LIFETIME BAN FROM FOXWOODS = YOU CAN STILL GO THERE WHENEVER YOU WANT. THEY DONT CHECK THEIR "LIFETIME BANLIST" IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. IVE BEEN THERE 50 TIMES AND I WASNT EVEN 21.

Seriously, its like THE most incompetent place in the ****ing world. Just go back tomorrow, I ****ing promise nobody will say a god damn word.

Seriously HEK, the absolute worst thing that can happen if you just go back, is they kick you out again! That happened to me once...out of 50 times....and it had nothing to do with my lifetime ban, its cause my ID was expired.

So seriously, maybe just try going back? I'm like 95% sure nobody will kick you out or even speak to you about the incident. I honestly would be shocked if they even saved those pictures they take after they "lifetime ban" you. I can tell you for damn sure that they don't have any "facial recognition software" like they claim.....except the porn the surveillance is watching while people steal chips off other ppl's stacks. seriously, if you had one word to describe foxwoods what would it be? incompetent. why are you so afraid to just go back?
maybe it's easier to get back in when nobody knows who the hell you are, you don't have any enemies in the poker room, and nobody else knows you got kicked out.
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Old 12-26-2008, 01:58 AM   #124
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Re: I got banned for LIFE from Foxwoods (tl;dr)

Hiring a lawyer is a waste of money imo. What do you want them to do for you? FW can ban you for any/no reason so you don't have a lawsuit. They could help you write a letter but I'm sure you can handle that on your own with advice from people here or other FW players. Sending a letter signed by your lawyer seems a little to confrontational and might make them think that you are more trouble than your $14/hr is worth.
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Old 12-26-2008, 02:00 AM   #125
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Re: I got banned for LIFE from Foxwoods (tl;dr)

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maybe it's easier to get back in when nobody knows who the hell you are, you don't have any enemies in the poker room, and nobody else knows you got kicked out.
I don't necessarily have enemies, but I'm certainly not boys with Frankie and them, and people certainly know who I am. I already did mention he might have a problem with people who KNOW he was banned, but that is literally the only risk he is taking in going back

I'm just saying that the security guards at the entrance, and the cage, and the floor, have literally no clue what is ****in going on from week to week. I think HEK overestimates how recognizable he is to them and how soon security would flock him if he returned to FW. Its just not like that, I felt that way for a almost a year also before I went back, but I did eventually go back, and played 10/20 NL w/ some of the same people mentioned in this thread. Nobody ever called me out, sure there was some joking about "let's ID this kid" but nobody said jack **** to the actual floor, when they came by.

If you think he is taking a major risk in just going back, can you please paint to me a picture of what you think would happen, worst case scenario, if he goes back?
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