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Medium-High Stakes PL/NL Discussions about medium-high stakes pot-limit and no-limit hold'em (2-4 and up)

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Old 04-25-2017, 10:55 AM   #1
BAGNTAG
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5/10 NL Not sure how to play KK here

Hero - haven't played a hand since villain sat down (orbit ago)
Villain - seems loose but passive when facing aggression, definitely likes to see flops

MP (1500) opens to $30
Hero HJ (1000) raises to $90 with KK
Villain SB (2500) calls $90
MP calls $90

Flop: J62

Villain leads for $75
MP folds

Hero?

Spoiler:
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Old 04-25-2017, 12:35 PM   #2
PTMHM
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Re: 5/10 NL Not sure how to play KK here

Call and reevaluate turn. I think I'd proceed cautiously. I get you don't want a club to come off, but you definitely cant know your hand is best when V leads into two opponents on the flop.

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Old 04-25-2017, 03:25 PM   #3
ORANGEFAN
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Re: 5/10 NL Not sure how to play KK here

So you drew that specific of a read from the guy 1 orbit in?

You could have used his leak against him by peeling for a turn card after flatting his flop lead. If he's flopped a baby flush, there are turns he is not going to love, good spot to take adv of his perceived leak. Without a redraw, we are putting ourselves in such an awkward spot for turn/rivers. And if he jams flops on us, we just give up.
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Old 04-26-2017, 09:43 AM   #4
lnternet
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Re: 5/10 NL Not sure how to play KK here

Why do you think raising the flop is good? Against which hands?

Seems like a super clear call.

When he jams, I don't think you can fold with 38% odds or so, as he's not donk-3bet jamming flushes too much
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Old 04-26-2017, 10:56 PM   #5
BAGNTAG
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Re: 5/10 NL Not sure how to play KK here

Quote:
Originally Posted by lnternet View Post
Why do you think raising the flop is good? Against which hands?

Seems like a super clear call.

When he jams, I don't think you can fold with 38% odds or so, as he's not donk-3bet jamming flushes too much
Immediately after the hand I realized it was bad to raise/fold flop. At the time, I was going to raise/call off, but after he jammed it felt like he had a set after cold calling pre from the SB. I agree flushes are unlikely. I also didn't want to call and play the turn incorrectly.
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Old 04-29-2017, 09:44 AM   #6
Andnoel
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Re: 5/10 NL Not sure how to play KK here

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Originally Posted by BAGNTAG View Post
Immediately after the hand I realized it was bad to raise/fold flop. At the time, I was going to raise/call off, but after he jammed it felt like he had a set after cold calling pre from the SB. I agree flushes are unlikely. I also didn't want to call and play the turn incorrectly.
U will need to have a clear plan before ur made any decision. Stick to your plan once u have made your decision.

If you decided to take a raise flop and call shove line, stick to it unless you have a very good read that villain has a hand better than yours.

The key to winning poker is to plan ahead and stick to it.

Anyway, this is a clear call at flop. Raising doesn't serve any purpose if you intend to fold to a raise.
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Old 04-29-2017, 11:19 PM   #7
fkme2tears
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Re: 5/10 NL Not sure how to play KK here

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Originally Posted by Andnoel View Post
U will need to have a clear plan before ur made any decision. Stick to your plan once u have made your decision.

If you decided to take a raise flop and call shove line, stick to it unless you have a very good read that villain has a hand better than yours.

The key to winning poker is to plan ahead and stick to it.

Anyway, this is a clear call at flop. Raising doesn't serve any purpose if you intend to fold to a raise.
I agree with most of this. But I like raising the flop. We wont like many turns and if a club comes off say he does have AJ or QQ and he doesn't have a club its going to kill all the action. So personally I would raise and gii. Your hand strength is to strong to fold here. Ya he can have some flushes here and possible sets but a lot of other hands he can have that your still beating and maybe flipping with. I think in sr pot calling is better and seeing a turn first but in 3b pot I tend to play it fast in spots like this not cause I am worried about the club but the value hands they have without a club will pretty much stop the action if club hits on the turn.
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Old 05-06-2017, 04:11 AM   #8
josh.reload
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Re: 5/10 NL Not sure how to play KK here

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAGNTAG View Post
Hero - haven't played a hand since villain sat down (orbit ago)
Villain - seems loose but passive when facing aggression, definitely likes to see flops

MP (1500) opens to $30
Hero HJ (1000) raises to $90 with K5/10 NL Not sure how to play KK here:K5/10 NL Not sure how to play KK here:
Villain SB (2500) calls $90
MP calls $90

Flop: J5/10 NL Not sure how to play KK here:65/10 NL Not sure how to play KK here:25/10 NL Not sure how to play KK here:

Villain leads for $75
MP folds

Hero?

Spoiler:
I think call is best on the flop. If I raise and he calls I'm still not sure where I'm at ( he could and probably would flat with a flush or with the Ac.) If he continues to lead turn and river I think I'm good as long as I don't see a club or ace.

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Old 05-06-2017, 07:46 PM   #9
smokeygray14
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Re: 5/10 NL Not sure how to play KK here

Call down unless a club comes then fold.

He has no bluffs if a 4th club comes unless for some crazy reason he decided to bluff the flop out of position in a three way 3 bet pot. If he has a set or AJ he's probably checking on a club.

If he flopped the flush he flopped the flush just gotta pay him off.

If he flopped a set and no club comes same thing.

Its most likely he has an Ac or AJ, KJ, QJ and your doing well against those hands, and he may bluff the Ac so I think in the long run you'll make money just calling down and folding if a club comes.
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Old 05-07-2017, 12:17 AM   #10
D22-soso
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Re: 5/10 NL Not sure how to play KK here

a line i like here is call flop bet. float any turn bet or if he checks turn, bet. you invested the same amount you did here, except threaten to have much bigger always.
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Old 05-09-2017, 09:53 PM   #11
meale
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Re: 5/10 NL Not sure how to play KK here

To let someone lead $70 into $270 on a board like that is pretty weak imo - flop raise seems mandatory. Raise fold or raise call is hard to know without knowing much about villain. He can have AcJx, more likely AdJd, QcQx, AA, JJ, KK - what does the flop lead 1/3psb mean? **** knows. I do see some people overplay the naked Ac here.
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Old 05-10-2017, 10:58 AM   #12
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Re: 5/10 NL Not sure how to play KK here

Quote:
Originally Posted by meale View Post
I do see some people overplay the naked Ac here.
But we are not ahead of naked Ac on the flop. Why do you want to put in more money against it?

Especially when you know which cards are good and bad for you on the turn, giving you nice playability there.
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Old 05-10-2017, 12:19 PM   #13
meale
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Re: 5/10 NL Not sure how to play KK here

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Originally Posted by lnternet View Post
But we are not ahead of naked Ac on the flop. Why do you want to put in more money against it?
Huh
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Old 05-10-2017, 02:56 PM   #14
No9to5job
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Re: 5/10 NL Not sure how to play KK here

Quote:
Originally Posted by meale View Post
To let someone lead $70 into $270 on a board like that is pretty weak imo - flop raise seems mandatory. Raise fold or raise call is hard to know without knowing much about villain. He can have AcJx, more likely AdJd, QcQx, AA, JJ, KK - what does the flop lead 1/3psb mean? **** knows. I do see some people overplay the naked Ac here.
Thats right !

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Old 05-10-2017, 03:37 PM   #15
lnternet
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Re: 5/10 NL Not sure how to play KK here

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Originally Posted by meale View Post
Huh
Well you're technically ahead but I wouldn't consider a 3-5% equity edge value to the point where you can just ignore other options.

Let me put it more clearly
Do you prefer to
1) push a 3-5% equity edge on the flop or
2) wait for the turn where you either know you have 0% and put in zero chips or boost to 71-74% and put in the rest of the chips as clear favorite
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Old 05-10-2017, 03:57 PM   #16
Kickurbutt3
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Re: 5/10 NL Not sure how to play KK here

I think to lead out for 70 on the flop is quiet weak. Hero should def reraise here to 200-240. If villain shoves we just need to let it go.

If villain calls the reraise try to check it down.
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Old 05-10-2017, 04:00 PM   #17
No9to5job
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Re: 5/10 NL Not sure how to play KK here

Quote:
Originally Posted by lnternet View Post
Well you're technically ahead but I wouldn't consider a 3-5% equity edge value to the point where you can just ignore other options.

Let me put it more clearly
Do you prefer to
1) push a 3-5% equity edge on the flop or
2) wait for the turn where you either know you have 0% and put in zero chips or boost to 71-74% and put in the rest of the chips as clear favorite
Why would want to give him excellent odds for his Ac flush draw by just calling? Reraise big, scoop the pot if he folds, reevaluate on the turn if he calls. If he reraise, depends of what kind of oponents you have in front of you.

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Old 05-10-2017, 04:06 PM   #18
vyken111
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Re: 5/10 NL Not sure how to play KK here

Many mistakes here...

1) Raise more pre ... $120-$150 at least, especially if he "likes to see flops"
2) Call a flop bet. I don't get the raise at all. You have tremendous showdown value - why try to knock him out of the pot? You're kind of turning kings into a bluff here almost.
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Old 05-10-2017, 04:09 PM   #19
No9to5job
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Re: 5/10 NL Not sure how to play KK here

Quote:
Originally Posted by vyken111 View Post
Many mistakes here...


2) Call a flop bet. I don't get the raise at all. You have tremendous showdown value - why try to knock him out of the pot? You're kind of turning kings into a bluff here almost.
Because of the texture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vyken111 View Post
Many mistakes here...

1) Raise more pre ... $120-$150 at least, especially if he "likes to see flops"
2) Call a flop bet. I don't get the raise at all. You have tremendous showdown value - why try to knock him out of the pot? You're kind of turning kings into a bluff here almost.

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Old 05-10-2017, 10:58 PM   #20
MagicJack69
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Re: 5/10 NL Not sure how to play KK here

The villain is coming out if the small blind and don't re raise you pre flop so I think it's safe to say he doesn't have AA, KK, QQ or AK since we hold KK making AK and KK and other K combos less likely

But out of the blinds he could be calling with some junk hands as well...possible any suited cards or connector or gaper combos.

I with a bet into the raiser and a small one at that I see it as a stab at the pot trying to get good odds on his bluff OT trying to set a good price to draw to the A,Q,J,T of water he has flush

I think a raise is in order to get him to fold his bluffs and to price him out on his odds to draw to his flush

It's also possible he just hit the J and has top pair.

If he re raise us we fold and if he just calls I say we try and check it down

If he keeps betting as long as its small I say we call him down as long as the flush don't come in
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