Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth
Hi Everyone:
We at Two Plus Two don't agree that playing poker does this, and we also are of the opinion that even though there are a relatively small number of problem gamblers, gambling in general is a form of entertainment that many people like to participate in and only disposable money gets budgeted for it.
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I realize that in an enterprize such as 2+2, that this is a position that must be taken. I also believe that many of your posters have spent hundreds upon hundreds of hours in casinos, and may hold a different opinion than the one quoted above.
I am not anti-gambling, obviously. However, I do not share the opinion that "there are a relatively small number of problem gamblers." I also do not believe in the standard "entertainment" line that is taken by the industry in general.
There are some winning gamblers who are professional or semi-professional, but I doubt they see their efforts as "entertainment". There are some chronic losers, and I'm sure they don't find losing "entertaining."
There are some people that do gamble within their means, and may truly see what they do as entertainment. I believe that the industry in general, however, gains comfort by using the talking point that the vast majority of people involved in gambling do so for entertainment.
The alchohol industry makes similar claims that their product is primariliy being used "socially", and that most people "drink responsibly." Whatever. These are the positions that need to be taken in certain industries and ventures. I understand why. I do believe that people should be responsible for their own decisions, and should get help when needed (just as one might for any problem or addiction).
That said, Mason, and here is the strange twist......I think that 2+2 actaully provides a service for problem gamblers (or potential problem gamblers). I think many people that have gambling problems tend to operate in a vacuum. If we look at NLHE or LHE, for example, people who do not study the game tend to vastly overestimate their skills, and can learn some expensive lessons and potentially develop some scary addictions. They really don't know how much they don't know. Also, they have very little ability to distinguish skill from variance. Hell, even the mathematicians find this distinguishment challenging with smallish sample sizes.
I think 2+2, knowingly or not, provides a service to people by providing forums with enough knowledgeable posters (not to mention the books), to expose people about how very little they actually do know about the game. From that position people can be better armed to make future decisions about how they choose to approach the games they play. Many use the the information to improve, but some use the information to quit - and that is a good thing.
I personally know of at least two people who quit playing losing poker once they realized what a talent, information, and skill edge their competitors had. I was one of thoese two people. 2+2 played a role in me and a friend finding out how much of the game was "over our heads." When a friend read some hand analysis threads that gave him some OMG moments, he commented to me...."is that the level of thinking these guys are playing at" . "Yup," I said.
Personally, I was a winning player in the glory years when I could find 35-50VPIP 6 max tables. Patience and a firm grasp of the obvious made me some money. I took some time off and when I tried again last year the game had tightened far too much for me to be a winner. I knew my weaknesses in part becuase of what 2+2 taught me. Many of the higher level concepts I understood, but could not apply well.
In closing, I don't agree with the section you quoted. I think the problem is bigger. Ironically, though, I think you actually provide more help than harm to problem gamblers. Information is power. People may chose to ingore information, or not seek it, but it is there.
Cliff Notes: Problem gambling is a bigger issue than you or the industry in general acknowledges. But, unlike casinos, which just take you money, 2+2 can actually help some problem (or potentially problem) gamblers.
Two Plus Two
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