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Old 12-20-2012, 10:18 PM   #1
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Thank You TwoPlusTwo for giving us RPM Poker

For those of you that do not know the background between RPM Poker and TwoPlusTwo let me share some of that with you:

RPM Poker (and RPM Seth) have been advertising on TwoPlusTwo for years and had their own sponsored forum. RPM advertised themselves as the "Longest Tenured Merge Brand on this Forum"

RPM Seth has had a checkered past on this forum and I believe he had been let off the hook 2 many times by Mason and the rest of the admins. I am going to spare you all the details but he has been busted spamming players via PM, using shill accounts to argue with users / mods and bash other skins on the merge network, attempting to buy player funds at a discount, and generally just being unwilling to answer any tough questions.

For reference see these threads:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29.../#post28968333

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/55...am-pms-968325/

Fast Forward to last week and RPM shuts its doors without informing their players and have not made a statement on TwoPlusTwo since it happened. TwoPlusTwo then quietly shut down their sponsored forum. (I know very surprising coming from a brand with great customer support - Wink)


What happens now? Well RPM players are told their "money is safe and secure" Well that is all well and good if only they were not being screwed out of the player points and tourney tickets.

Who is to blame for this? RPM and Merge OBV, but imo so is TwoPlusTwo since they continued to support RPM and allow them to advertise on this website.

Maybe Two Plus Two will reimburse players for player points and tickets stolen; if that is to much, maybe they will just apologize for giving us RPM Poker and Rpm Seth.


END RANT
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:33 PM   #2
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Re: Thank You TwoPlusTwo for giving us RPM Poker

Yeah, we're all still waiting for our Full Tilt refunds from 2+2 as well.

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Old 12-20-2012, 11:56 PM   #3
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Re: Thank You TwoPlusTwo for giving us RPM Poker

OP, I've been wanting to give you an avatar for awhile now and this seems like the appropriate time.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/cu...ar13591_23.gif

Last edited by Mike Haven; 12-21-2012 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:02 AM   #4
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Re: Thank You TwoPlusTwo for giving us RPM Poker

Do you want Mason to burp you and change your diaper, too?
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:11 AM   #5
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Re: Thank You TwoPlusTwo for giving us RPM Poker

OP Mason and 2p2 don't care if RPM shafts players.As long as the advertising dollars keep rolling in.

Spoiler:
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:26 AM   #6
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Re: Thank You TwoPlusTwo for giving us RPM Poker

It's called honoring their advertising contract, I'm guessing.

And there's not much, if anything, 2plus2 can do.
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:30 AM   #7
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Re: Thank You TwoPlusTwo for giving us RPM Poker

It's one thing to suggest that 2p2 perhaps could have been more aggressive with RPM (although from what I've read in the mod forum, it seems that people were always aware and on top of the situation, even if they didn't take the actions you would have preferred).

It's another to suggest that they're in any way responsible for the money owed to players. As you note, it's not like the site hasn't been giving off signs it's shady for a while, hard to fault anybody but you for your money still being there.
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:20 PM   #8
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Re: Thank You TwoPlusTwo for giving us RPM Poker

I was unaware that just because something is advertised on 2p2, this means that 2p2 provides a 100% satisfaction guaranteed or your money back promise.

Frankly I think any American still playing online poker should be cognizant of the risks given the legal environment, and if you read 2p2 enough to know a site has problems but leave your money on there, then blame 2p2 when things turn out poorly, you're either trolling or probably shouldn't be playing online poker.
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Old 12-25-2012, 11:27 PM   #9
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Re: Thank You TwoPlusTwo for giving us RPM Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT RJ View Post
I was unaware that just because something is advertised on 2p2, this means that 2p2 provides a 100% satisfaction guaranteed or your money back promise.

Frankly I think any American still playing online poker should be cognizant of the risks given the legal environment, and if you read 2p2 enough to know a site has problems but leave your money on there, then blame 2p2 when things turn out poorly, you're either trolling or probably shouldn't be playing online poker.
quoted for the lol
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Old 12-25-2012, 11:37 PM   #10
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Re: Thank You TwoPlusTwo for giving us RPM Poker

is rpm the reason we had to clean up bbv4l to attract better advertisers? or do things just happen around here?
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Old 12-25-2012, 11:53 PM   #11
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Re: Thank You TwoPlusTwo for giving us RPM Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT RJ View Post
I was unaware that just because something is advertised on 2p2, this means that 2p2 provides a 100% satisfaction guaranteed or your money back promise.

Frankly I think any American still playing online poker should be cognizant of the risks given the legal environment, and if you read 2p2 enough to know a site has problems but leave your money on there, then blame 2p2 when things turn out poorly, you're either trolling or probably shouldn't be playing online poker.
Spot on, if you put 2p2 on the same level as some affiliate site that will do business with anyone that will cut a deal with them. The difference is that 2p2 and Mason have always made a point of saying the products they produce are, in Mason's words, "top notch", so I think there is some responsibility to not do business with whatever shady site that pays. 2p2 is better than that, and has not been shy about saying as much.

Just because OP tips his hand in the last paragraph that it's a troll doesn't mean there's truth in the rest of his post.
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Old 12-25-2012, 11:56 PM   #12
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Re: Thank You TwoPlusTwo for giving us RPM Poker

Hey, I argued 2p2 should cut ties with Lock after the Girah thing, but then I'm not the one who has to balance the needs of the site.

OP arguing that 2p2 owes him anything just because RPM sucks is ridiculous and seriously clouds the rest of his argument. If any site is found to be a huge negative to the poker world then I agree that 2p2 should cut ties with them, but I'm not sure where that line is.
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:08 AM   #13
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Re: Thank You TwoPlusTwo for giving us RPM Poker

Ok, then excise his last paragraph. Is there anything he said untrue? Has not 2p2 very publicly and justifiably trumpeted that they are better? Does doing that not incur a greater level of responsibility on 2p2 to do some level of policing of who it will offer sponsored forums to? I think it does.

I don't think 2p2 owes anyone anything over this, but going forward, if there are such obvious problems with an advertiser that OP points out, they may want to reconsider the decision to continue to do business with them. That, or incur injury to the 2p2 brand, as has happened here. When Mason says 2p2 products are "top notch", it certainly implies that a 2p2 sponsored forum offers a service that's "top notch".

On the other hand if 2p2 will take money from any shady business, then I think it owes its readers an acknowledgement that 2p2 does not choose to provide a "top notch" service in all of its output.
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:20 AM   #14
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Re: Thank You TwoPlusTwo for giving us RPM Poker

I think some of the banner ads and coaches who pay for space here are kind of obvious proof that 2+2's standards are not even close to what you think they should be.

I don't get what the big deal with rpm is anyway. They aren't refunding points and are giving back cash only? Well, pokerstars didn't give full value for points either when they pulled out of the usa. And I can't see at all how 2+2 is to be blamed for either decision.
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Old 12-26-2012, 05:08 AM   #15
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Re: Thank You TwoPlusTwo for giving us RPM Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by WalterKovacs View Post
Ok, then excise his last paragraph. Is there anything he said untrue? Has not 2p2 very publicly and justifiably trumpeted that they are better? Does doing that not incur a greater level of responsibility on 2p2 to do some level of policing of who it will offer sponsored forums to? I think it does.

I don't think 2p2 owes anyone anything over this, but going forward, if there are such obvious problems with an advertiser that OP points out, they may want to reconsider the decision to continue to do business with them. That, or incur injury to the 2p2 brand, as has happened here. When Mason says 2p2 products are "top notch", it certainly implies that a 2p2 sponsored forum offers a service that's "top notch".

On the other hand if 2p2 will take money from any shady business, then I think it owes its readers an acknowledgement that 2p2 does not choose to provide a "top notch" service in all of its output.
Mason's talking about his books when he says 'top notch'.

Not the advertisers.

If they applied your standards there would be no ad money coming in at all.
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:39 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT RJ View Post
I was unaware that just because something is advertised on 2p2, this means that 2p2 provides a 100% satisfaction guaranteed or your money back promise.

Frankly I think any American still playing online poker should be cognizant of the risks given the legal environment, and if you read 2p2 enough to know a site has problems but leave your money on there, then blame 2p2 when things turn out poorly, you're either trolling or probably shouldn't be playing online poker.
2+2 owes me noods cause I signed up for skill bet based on a half nekked Lacey in a banner ad and there is never any ****ing noods on the site
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:48 AM   #17
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Re: Thank You TwoPlusTwo for giving us RPM Poker

disappointaments
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Old 12-26-2012, 02:57 PM   #18
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Re: Thank You TwoPlusTwo for giving us RPM Poker

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Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan View Post
2+2 owes me noods cause I signed up for skill bet based on a half nekked Lacey in a banner ad and there is never any ****ing noods on the site
I've never wanted to send a photo of my **** to someone so badly!
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:43 PM   #19
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I've never wanted to send a photo of my **** to someone so badly!
You have a zoom lens?
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:50 PM   #20
 
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Re: Thank You TwoPlusTwo for giving us RPM Poker

Boom roasted
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Old 12-26-2012, 04:02 PM   #21
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Re: Thank You TwoPlusTwo for giving us RPM Poker

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Originally Posted by Do Not Blink View Post

What happens now? Well RPM players are told their "money is safe and secure" Well that is all well and good if only they were not being screwed out of the player points and tourney tickets.
UIGEA is still in effect and has been the whole time, meaning all gaming sites still serving US customers are utilizing loopholes, grey areas, or whatever means necessary in order to process deposits and withdrawals for US players. Your money is not safe on any US-serving gaming site regardless of what they tell you. Be more incredulous next time.
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Old 12-26-2012, 04:20 PM   #22
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Re: Thank You TwoPlusTwo for giving us RPM Poker

And for all we know, that might be more of a Merge decision than an RPM one regarding the points and player tix.

Regardless, it's obviously something that 2+2 has ZERO to do with.
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:39 PM   #23
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Re: Thank You TwoPlusTwo for giving us RPM Poker

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You have a zoom lens?
It only took you 104K posts to finally make me laugh!


j/k and well played sir.
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:19 AM   #24
 
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Re: Thank You TwoPlusTwo for giving us RPM Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by WalterKovacs View Post
When Mason says 2p2 products are "top notch", it certainly implies that a 2p2 sponsored forum offers a service that's "top notch".

On the other hand if 2p2 will take money from any shady business, then I think it owes its readers an acknowledgement that 2p2 does not choose to provide a "top notch" service in all of its output.
Is it not top notch?

When problems about advertisers on other poker sites are brought up, threads, posts and accounts being deleted is the norm.

2p2 allowed a discussion, debate and arguments about the sponsor in the biggest traffic forum on their site when the RPM PM spam/fund buy issue was brought up.

I thought Seth was garbage and 2p2 gave him quite a large benefit of doubt, but it was their decision, they've met Seth and I don't think any users on this site were harmed as a result of their decision.

More on the last point, I'm not sure who is harmed here outside of other poker room advertisers and 2p2. RPM has long been known to not handle player funds and while I think Seth was shady and deceptive about a lot of the details in this story, what he did ultimately comes down to a judgement of character. And if we're banning poker rooms for negative character qualities that don't involve fraud/theft/crimes against players, then don't we need to start digging further into the poker rooms that advertise here (a very difficult task)?

To be clear, I don't think anyone should do that and after looking at all the details in the Seth scandal I stopped recommending that players play at RPM. If they had something specific to offer that no other Merge skin had (rewards, service, safety) I would've still recommended them, but they did not, and Seth's actions to me made it pretty easy to just go with another brand that hadn't shown a tendency to backdoor, ignore warnings, keep backdoor spamming then bull**** about reasons for using secret accounts.
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:12 AM   #25
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Re: Thank You TwoPlusTwo for giving us RPM Poker

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Originally Posted by Dids View Post
It's one thing to suggest that 2p2 perhaps could have been more aggressive with RPM (although from what I've read in the mod forum, it seems that people were always aware and on top of the situation, even if they didn't take the actions you would have preferred).

It's another to suggest that they're in any way responsible for the money owed to players. As you note, it's not like the site hasn't been giving off signs it's shady for a while, hard to fault anybody but you for your money still being there.
And yet 2+2 thinks its a smart idea to keep on having a sponsored forum ? It wouldnt be the first time 2+2 ended a contract due to bad services by their advertisers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT RJ View Post
I was unaware that just because something is advertised on 2p2, this means that 2p2 provides a 100% satisfaction guaranteed or your money back promise.

Frankly I think any American still playing online poker should be cognizant of the risks given the legal environment, and if you read 2p2 enough to know a site has problems but leave your money on there, then blame 2p2 when things turn out poorly, you're either trolling or probably shouldn't be playing online poker.
multi quote for multi lols. Where is there being spoken about 100% satisfaction or returning money ? You dont think OP is serious in his last sentence >1% right ?
If you are a legit straight up business and you rent out space to a dodgy advertiser (which is 100% KNOWN TO YOU) it would suit you to take some responsability EVEN if you formally have no responsability. Its an ethics thing.
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