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Should Ike go or should Ike stay? Should Ike go or should Ike stay?

08-11-2015 , 11:44 PM
Is hotwarmcold Dan Druff?
Should Ike go or should Ike stay? Quote
08-11-2015 , 11:53 PM
ok googled it, musician? what's the poker connection?
Should Ike go or should Ike stay? Quote
08-11-2015 , 11:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotwarmcold2
he won't be staying at pokerstars.

if your impressed when people admit to cheating only after the heat gets turned up (and not just in the nvg thread) that is a low threshold imo.
I think you're pushing it calling what he did cheating. He should have reported it and I've far more confidence he would in future than I have about almost anybody else.

I'd feel differently if you showed he went out of his way to sit at the same tables exploiting the situation big time but is that the case? Sounds more like he failed to avoid some games he should have avoided (and should have reported) but he recognises his mistake.
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08-11-2015 , 11:59 PM
there won't be a future, chezlaw.
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08-12-2015 , 01:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotwarmcold2
"What he has said about me in this thread is true. In early May I became aware that Hastings was playing on the NoelHayes account and I didn't do anything about it."
Psychologically people find it difficult to deal with situations that are not prepared for and sometimes find themselves paralyzed from doing the right thing in a in a timely manner.

It was a courageous thing for bakes to come forward to report Hastings for what he did, Ike should have done the same thing, so he is guilty for his negligence, that is hardly the equivalently of making Ike a cheater himself.

Rather than ignore the situation he should had acted and as a result he has to live with that regret of not doing so but that does not make him the big bad villain that you're making him out to be.
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08-12-2015 , 03:26 AM
Damn Ike Haxton was one of the few people left in the game that I thought wasnt a cheating scumbag and actually admired

This is a real pity

I guess if you roll with pigs youre going to get dirty

Great post that one Bobo quoted earlier itt from that Stinger/Hayes monster thread that Ive stopped following
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08-12-2015 , 06:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotwarmcold2
there won't be a future, chezlaw.
Oh the drama.

How long does it take you to stop crying about the flush draw who shoved into your overpair, and then binked a flush on the river?

The sky fell on Black Friday, it can't fall again, stop already, please. Then again, if you and those like you are the future of poker, well, then I hope you're right.
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08-12-2015 , 01:09 PM
i mean there wont be a future for ike & a few others at pokerstars.
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08-12-2015 , 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotwarmcold2
i mean there wont be a future for ike & a few others at pokerstars.
We know what you mean. You have said the same thing over and over in ~100 posts on your 2 accounts. You have some valid points, but the way you are presenting them is really not helping you or the cause itself, infact it's the other way round. You are actually turning people away from an important thread (the one in NVG), because it's very tiresome going through your TL,DR posts that only says the same thing again and again.
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08-12-2015 , 05:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotwarmcold
do we need to first agree on what cheating is?

if ike knew that hastings was playing on the hayes account & other players who played in line-ups with the hayes account did not, would you agree or disagree that ike had an unfair advantage over other players at the table? I think you will find the majority of players (and granted my main game is plo1k) would believe that ike had an unfair advantage. If phil ivey sat in my old games under a different account & some of the players knew & i did not. I would feell cheated. I think people generally believe an unfair advantage is exactly what cheating is. do you agree or disagree?

So we are to believe that CTS, who to my knowledge has never posted on ma'ing on these forums or elsewhere, decided to come into a thread (pretty early iirc) about stingerr88 getting caught ma'ing & he wasn't talking about stinger? Even if the entire thread was about stinger?? If you can still access the post you coul d confirm that. Can the post still be viewed?
I think Mr.hobo needs a refreshing course of non-american logic and philosophy of reason...
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08-12-2015 , 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2bullets
We know what you mean. You have said the same thing over and over in ~100 posts on your 2 accounts. You have some valid points, but the way you are presenting them is really not helping you or the cause itself, infact it's the other way round. You are actually turning people away from an important thread (the one in NVG), because it's very tiresome going through your TL,DR posts that only says the same thing again and again.
why are u all acting like you got the brains of Bush and logic of Obama.... Is this the american deal...
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08-12-2015 , 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reziduer
why are u all acting like you got the brains of Bush and logic of Obama.... Is this the american deal...
I wouldn't know, I'm from Denmark.
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08-12-2015 , 05:27 PM
Hwc comes with the truth. Mods be like"don' tap the glass". You guys want a desicion but you too scared to add value to the topic.
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08-12-2015 , 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reziduer
Hwc comes with the truth. Mods be like"don' tap the glass". You guys want a desicion but you too scared to add value to the topic.
HWC has valid points, the way he is presenting them takes away from that. The issue discussed is very important, but he is hurting his own points by not doing it in a civilized manner.
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08-12-2015 , 06:02 PM
Believe it or not I'm trying to keep an open mind about all of this and take it in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xalas
It was a courageous thing for bakes to come forward to report Hastings for what he did, Ike should have done the same thing, so he is guilty for his negligence, that is hardly the equivalently of making Ike a cheater himself.
When I read this I just had to ask something though.

If Ike used the NH acct like a fishing lure then isn't that like soft collusion or something???



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2bullets
HWC has valid points, the way he is presenting them takes away from that. The issue discussed is very important, but he is hurting his own points by not doing it in a civilized manner.
^THIS^
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08-12-2015 , 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotwarmcold2
Bobo,
i agree, but this is a poker forum & so the assumed context is poker & cheating is an unfortunate part of poker it seems. these mods are posting specifically about cheating in poker & ethical behavior. the people here questioning them (and i'm not the only one)are questioning their logic & ethical mindset with regards to cheating in poker on website about poker. i try not to make any judgement about them otherwise, because i don't know them. but on a poker website, in threads about poker & cheating it is perfectly reasonable for one form an opinion about what someone chooses to post. now i am not going to lie, to some degree i do a form a partial opinion about what type of person they might be. that is human nature & the activity of profiling villains is a skill that gets sharpened after hundreds of thousands of hands of online & live poker vs villains who are trying to delude you in some way. honestly, this took very little skill. you simply read what they have to say. they are opening their own hands at will. (actually way more than hundreds of thousands of hands.)

finally, your right. it doesn't matter what the mods think or say or what i think or say. venice was right. what matters is what mason malmuth & mat sklansky thinks or says or acts. and so far they have stood up for poker in many people's opinion, not just my own.
I'm responding here and not in NVG in order to not keep derailing that thread, but I'm wondering which mods you're talking about and which specific posts you're taking exception to. I haven't come across mods who are saying anything questionable concerning cheating or unethical behaviour, but perhaps I've missed some posts.
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08-13-2015 , 04:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregorio
I'm responding here and not in NVG in order to not keep derailing that thread, but I'm wondering which mods you're talking about and which specific posts you're taking exception to. I haven't come across mods who are saying anything questionable concerning cheating or unethical behaviour, but perhaps I've missed some posts.
i don't really have time atm to go through it, but i suggest you go look into the thread about the time i started posting in it as hotwarmcold if your really curious to know. and honestly you have been posting in the nvg yourself & have been called out a few times. i have been called out for being annoying, so i can relate a bit.

the other issue that has upset posters in the past & makes them question their views on cheating & what is ethical behavior is how previous scandals, important scandals about cheating & stealing money (stoxtrade,fiji,prahlad/ike haxton stuff--for example) were initially suppressed by mods who deleted posts or threads. or buried the threads into other threads & not to mention their actual posts.

i started a thread to pull out Noel Hayes from the stinger88 thread, a 3,000+ post thread because it seems mr hayes is presently engaged as the sportsbook director of an online gaming company & was previously employed by paddypowerpoker. can any of us explain away how someone employed in the gaming industry for some time (and a poker player) could not have known what he is was doing by sharing or selling his account? of course not. but he was buried in the Stinger88 thread & getting a free pass. that thread was folded back into the original thread & basically buried from view. now i really appreciate the mod who did that owned up to this mistake & owned up to the mistake of burying the "Should ike haxton remain a mod on 2+2...--this thread) in the nvg moderation discussion thread (also burying it). but the point is these types of threads which expose or highlight serious issues should not be insta-moved/deleted/edited etc...etc...

(before i continue, i asked a diff mod where to post the ike thread, i was told in atf, but instead i posted it in nvg to see if there was a consensus that it should be brought for discussion in atf--my mistake. and the mod who told me to post it here was not the one who deleted it, btw)

i want to propose a solution to some of this stuff and if you feel the solution is worth considering, please send it to mat sklansky.

new threads or important posts about cheating or stealing money or the potential of either, should not be moderated by just any mod in the particular forum. this is obviously going to be mostly a nvg issue, but threads have popped in msnl, hsnl, hsplo before too. rather, mods should alert one of 2-3 mods to consider them seriously & then make their judgement. and those mods, imo, need to be informed about the state of today's games & quite frankly, it wouldn' hurt if one of them had a little bit more life experience. so yeah, someone a little older who has weighed issues of ethics for longer than a younger moderator. (just my opinion) i also think one of them needs to be a staff moderator.

why is this important? because people with information that can help the poker community have in the past given up because their posts or threads were edited or deleted.
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08-13-2015 , 07:42 AM
Maybe ike and hwc play a Hu turbo sng and winner gets to be mod
Should Ike go or should Ike stay? Quote
08-13-2015 , 10:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotwarmcold2
ike has confessed in the nvg thread that he is a cheater. we have hand histories showing he sat games with the noelhayes account giving him an unfair advantage over everyone else (aka cheated). it is now clearly up to mat & mason to decide if a known cheater should remain a moderator of the 2+2 forums & not for us.
this is the essence of it all.

several players and friends of players said that people selectively played in the games because of NoelHayes and ike had an unfair advantage knowing that the person on the NoelHayes account isn't the actual account owner anymore, but a friend of him who is also an experienced hs pro.

ike could thus read the game dynamics with a knowledge advantage noone else could have legally had, which is obv huge in high variance games with thin edges.
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08-13-2015 , 11:30 AM
Ike only played part of one SCOOP tournament knowing who Noel/Brian was. Brian didn't tell him he was Noel until they ended up at the same table during the tournament. They did not play together after that.

Last edited by gregorio; 08-13-2015 at 11:40 AM.
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08-13-2015 , 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ike View Post
Some time in early May I heard a rumor that it was Brian on the account. I was inclined to believe it, but without any actual evidence I didn't think there was anything for me to do about it.

your starting to flip-flop from your initial confession, ike. you didn't need any evidence, especially since you yourself thought the rumor was credible & were inclined to believe it. the burden of investigating & confirming the cheating is upon pokerstars. the burden of reporting it is upon you (and any other stars employees who knew) the worst part about this is you could have done it anonymously & chose not to.
gregorio, first part is from ike's 2nd post in nvg. i think it is reasonable that many poker players & members of the 2+2 community are not going to just take ike's word for anything anymore. he has lost the benefit of the doubt imo. and this is not the first time he has been implicated in cheating or unethical behavior. this is just the first time he has been admitted to it

he can recover from this. i'll be the first person to champion ike if decides to help clean up the the games & be an example for all the lower stakes players who admire him. he seemingly has the skill to be a winner in honest games, but he needs to help fix the the acceptance of cheating if he wants to be known for something more than a cheater & he also needs to come clean on any tools he & others are using ingame.

i will end it here because i don't want to derail this.

Last edited by hotwarmcold2; 08-13-2015 at 12:09 PM.
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08-13-2015 , 12:33 PM
HWC I asked in the other thread but you ignored.

It seems to me that you have a personal issue with Ike, beyond what's in the thread. Is this so? If not, are you willing to provide cliffs on your identity -- your name and poker history, basically -- to support that?

For the record, obviously you're not obligated to provide this and I won't think less of you, as it were, if you don't. There are plenty of reasons I can imagine you wouldn't want to.

I just think I'm probably not the only who feels your reaction is more extreme than the situation warrants, and if you could show it's not personal that would make it easier to accept your posts here as being solely about this issue and nothing else. Basically, I think it would help your cause a lot and you do seem to care about this cause very much!

So... who are you?
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08-13-2015 , 12:56 PM
i am someone who has been cheated in poker b4 & even that doesn't matter. i don't care about your identity or the identity of anyone posting on this topic. we all have a right to our privacy & i don't believe i have broken any rules here on 2+2 or acted in an unethical way. let the facts & inquiry stand alone. one of the problems in poker is that we are to absorbed by the personalities & who said what & did what vs. what they said or what they did.
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08-13-2015 , 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotwarmcold2
i am someone who has been cheated in poker b4 & even that doesn't matter. i don't care about your identity or the identity of anyone posting on this topic. we all have a right to our privacy & i don't believe i have broken any rules here on 2+2 or acted in an unethical way. let the facts & inquiry stand alone. one of the problems in poker is that we are to absorbed by the personalities & who said what & did what vs. what they said or what they did.
So do you have a personal axe to grind with Ike beyond this issue?
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08-13-2015 , 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Wallace

So... who are you?

So... who are you? You're certainly not a guy casually reading NVG and decided to open an account to post in this thread.
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