Politics version 7.0 discussion safe space
01-06-2017
, 04:58 PM
Since this thread and this one tucked away in the foreign language forum indicate Adios is pretty much spot on, ie that the regs in P simply cannot let things be, I'll repost what I would love for Politics 7.0 to become:
Many of you may disagree with me, and with Haidt's assessment of Universities these days as well. You may think you know the Truth, and we are at the End Of Knowledge... so their is nothing left to do but implement your very correct and sacred political views. You may think the world should be scrubbed of bigotry, and bigots themselves, or at very least 2+2.
Sounds like a lofty goal, but some of us obviously disagree with your methods. Some of us think you might not be the best people to decide who and what is bigoted, and we even suspect, based on the methods you encourage (stfu and go away you racist, sexist, ist-ist f%^%#%%$#%^#) you've even sort of lost grasp of how to tell right from wrong.
You think 2+2 should not be a "platform for bigotry", well I simply disagree. I think this place has so many super smart and well informed posters (even in P), it is exactly the place we should welcome bigots of all shapes and sizes to come and spout all their ignorant opinions for the smarter posters to knock down. We should not be afraid they will rub off on the weak minded, because we have so many smarty pants here to make better arguments. You are here to save the weak-minded from the fork-tongued devils who would otherwise surely bring on the apocalypse. And hey, you might even learn something too while you're at it......butnaaaaahahahahahhahaa.
Quote:
I think we have an issue at 2+2 much like what Jonathan Haidt has described is going on at universities today, one of purpose, or telos.
http://heterodoxacademy.org/2016/10/...ocial-justice/
"Aristotle often evaluated a thing with respect to its “telos” – its purpose, end, or goal. The telos of a knife is to cut. The telos of a physician is health or healing. What is the telos of university?
The most obvious answer is “truth” –- the word appears on so many university crests. But increasingly, many of America’s top universities are embracing social justice as their telos, or as a second and equal telos. But can any institution or profession have two teloses (or teloi)? What happens if they conflict?
As a social psychologist who studies morality, I have watched these two teloses come into conflict increasingly often during my 30 years in the academy. The conflicts seemed manageable in the 1990s. But the intensity of conflict has grown since then, at the same time as the political diversity of the professoriate was plummeting, and at the same time as American cross-partisan hostility was rising. I believe the conflict reached its boiling point in the fall of 2015 when student protesters at 80 universities demanded that their universities make much greater and more explicit commitments to social justice, often including mandatory courses and training for everyone in social justice perspectives and content.
Now that many university presidents have agreed to implement many of the demands, I believe that the conflict between truth and social justice is likely to become unmanageable.* Universities will have to choose, and be explicit about their choice, so that potential students and faculty recruits can make an informed choice. Universities that try to honor both will face increasing incoherence and internal conflict."
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I think it's clear Politics Alpha has chosen it's telos: social justice. They may believe they are capable of maintaining both purposes, truth and social justice, and they may be right. Let them try.
If this forum is to be different, let's try keeping this forum's telos singular, and let's make it's primary focus the pursuit of truth.
Having spent many years arguing with Chezlaw over in SMP, I can vouch for his fairness and integrity. He cares about truth. Yes, he's pretty far left on many things, and yes he prefers people be PC, and there's nothing wrong with PC - old school PC that is meant to show basic empathy toward minority groups whose experiences are often much different from those in the majority. So long as it's not misused to shield reality, or as a hammer to smash up sincere arguments, it's fine. I don't think Chezlaw will do that, and I think he would be a great moderator of a new politics forum with a tried and true old telos:
http://heterodoxacademy.org/2016/10/...ocial-justice/
"Aristotle often evaluated a thing with respect to its “telos” – its purpose, end, or goal. The telos of a knife is to cut. The telos of a physician is health or healing. What is the telos of university?
The most obvious answer is “truth” –- the word appears on so many university crests. But increasingly, many of America’s top universities are embracing social justice as their telos, or as a second and equal telos. But can any institution or profession have two teloses (or teloi)? What happens if they conflict?
As a social psychologist who studies morality, I have watched these two teloses come into conflict increasingly often during my 30 years in the academy. The conflicts seemed manageable in the 1990s. But the intensity of conflict has grown since then, at the same time as the political diversity of the professoriate was plummeting, and at the same time as American cross-partisan hostility was rising. I believe the conflict reached its boiling point in the fall of 2015 when student protesters at 80 universities demanded that their universities make much greater and more explicit commitments to social justice, often including mandatory courses and training for everyone in social justice perspectives and content.
Now that many university presidents have agreed to implement many of the demands, I believe that the conflict between truth and social justice is likely to become unmanageable.* Universities will have to choose, and be explicit about their choice, so that potential students and faculty recruits can make an informed choice. Universities that try to honor both will face increasing incoherence and internal conflict."
------------------
I think it's clear Politics Alpha has chosen it's telos: social justice. They may believe they are capable of maintaining both purposes, truth and social justice, and they may be right. Let them try.
If this forum is to be different, let's try keeping this forum's telos singular, and let's make it's primary focus the pursuit of truth.
Having spent many years arguing with Chezlaw over in SMP, I can vouch for his fairness and integrity. He cares about truth. Yes, he's pretty far left on many things, and yes he prefers people be PC, and there's nothing wrong with PC - old school PC that is meant to show basic empathy toward minority groups whose experiences are often much different from those in the majority. So long as it's not misused to shield reality, or as a hammer to smash up sincere arguments, it's fine. I don't think Chezlaw will do that, and I think he would be a great moderator of a new politics forum with a tried and true old telos:
Sounds like a lofty goal, but some of us obviously disagree with your methods. Some of us think you might not be the best people to decide who and what is bigoted, and we even suspect, based on the methods you encourage (stfu and go away you racist, sexist, ist-ist f%^%#%%$#%^#) you've even sort of lost grasp of how to tell right from wrong.
You think 2+2 should not be a "platform for bigotry", well I simply disagree. I think this place has so many super smart and well informed posters (even in P), it is exactly the place we should welcome bigots of all shapes and sizes to come and spout all their ignorant opinions for the smarter posters to knock down. We should not be afraid they will rub off on the weak minded, because we have so many smarty pants here to make better arguments. You are here to save the weak-minded from the fork-tongued devils who would otherwise surely bring on the apocalypse. And hey, you might even learn something too while you're at it......butnaaaaahahahahahhahaa.
01-06-2017
, 05:08 PM
, but Mat seems to read them sometimes. Ask him who finally convinced him to open up this forum, and how well that's been going:http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...low-stakes-nl/
As I recall, Wookie fought that tooth and nail as well.
01-06-2017
, 05:36 PM
Quote:
Probably nobody sane , but Mat seems to read them sometimes. Ask him who finally convinced him to open up this forum, and how well that's been going:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...low-stakes-nl/
As I recall, Wookie fought that tooth and nail as well.
, but Mat seems to read them sometimes. Ask him who finally convinced him to open up this forum, and how well that's been going:http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...low-stakes-nl/
As I recall, Wookie fought that tooth and nail as well.
FoldnDark
arguing for low stakes
