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Old 01-06-2017, 12:53 PM   #26
gregorio
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Re: Politics version 7.0 discussion safe space

This thread is a safe space for people to discuss the moderation of the new politics v.7 forum. Please keep the insults to that forum. We don't need that crap infecting other forums.
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Old 01-06-2017, 01:06 PM   #27
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Re: Politics version 7.0 discussion safe space

The Unchained name was like the only thing that place had going for it. Politics v.7 is horrible, like a meeting of bored drone apparatchiks picked it out.
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Old 01-06-2017, 01:07 PM   #28
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Re: Politics version 7.0 discussion safe space

Isn't that the subtitle of SMP?
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Old 01-06-2017, 01:11 PM   #29
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Re: Politics version 7.0 discussion safe space

Quote:
Originally Posted by kioshk View Post
The Unchained name was like the only thing that place had going for it. Politics v.7 is horrible, like a meeting of bored drone apparatchiks picked it out.
Its Politics version 7.0 not, the indeed horrible, Politics version 7
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Old 01-06-2017, 01:12 PM   #30
kerowo
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Re: Politics version 7.0 discussion safe space

That's why people don't think you have a sense of humor.
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Old 01-06-2017, 01:14 PM   #31
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Re: Politics version 7.0 discussion safe space

Not all people. You never got my humour, that's your loss (or possibly gain)
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Old 01-06-2017, 01:49 PM   #32
niss
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Re: Politics version 7.0 discussion safe space

I suggested "Chez's Stadium", but it apparently was rejected by the lefties/righties/middies/commies/SJWs/racists/euros/non-Mets fans.
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Old 01-06-2017, 01:52 PM   #33
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Re: Politics version 7.0 discussion safe space

Eric Idle had a good Che Stadium joke in his Rutles show.
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Old 01-06-2017, 01:52 PM   #34
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Re: Politics version 7.0 discussion safe space

How about "ChezzMate - The Extra Z is for Bruce"?
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Old 01-06-2017, 01:53 PM   #35
chezlaw
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Re: Politics version 7.0 discussion safe space

I had a committe meeting re your suggestion niss. Unusally for me, I was unanimous. Sorry
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Old 01-06-2017, 02:40 PM   #36
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Re: Politics version 7.0 discussion safe space

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Originally Posted by bundy5 View Post
I wondered how long one of the regular lefties from the P forum would start a thread like this...
i don't think gregorio is a regular lefty from the P forum
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Old 01-06-2017, 02:45 PM   #37
chezlaw
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Re: Politics version 7.0 discussion safe space

That's a bit nitty isn't it? He just wanted this silliness out of the chat thread didn't he.
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Old 01-06-2017, 03:31 PM   #38
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Re: Politics version 7.0 discussion safe space

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MrWookie and company will be calling for this new version of the forum to be shut down too, just give it time. They always do. It will be the same complaints, same gripes as always. It won't matter how well chez does as the mod. FWIW I think it is naive to think otherwise. The message is clear.
I made this post the other day. Happened even faster than I thought it would.
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Old 01-06-2017, 04:58 PM   #39
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Re: Politics version 7.0 discussion safe space

Since this thread and this one tucked away in the foreign language forum indicate Adios is pretty much spot on, ie that the regs in P simply cannot let things be, I'll repost what I would love for Politics 7.0 to become:

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoldnDark View Post
I think we have an issue at 2+2 much like what Jonathan Haidt has described is going on at universities today, one of purpose, or telos.


http://heterodoxacademy.org/2016/10/...ocial-justice/

"Aristotle often evaluated a thing with respect to its “telos” – its purpose, end, or goal. The telos of a knife is to cut. The telos of a physician is health or healing. What is the telos of university?

The most obvious answer is “truth” –- the word appears on so many university crests. But increasingly, many of America’s top universities are embracing social justice as their telos, or as a second and equal telos. But can any institution or profession have two teloses (or teloi)? What happens if they conflict?

As a social psychologist who studies morality, I have watched these two teloses come into conflict increasingly often during my 30 years in the academy. The conflicts seemed manageable in the 1990s. But the intensity of conflict has grown since then, at the same time as the political diversity of the professoriate was plummeting, and at the same time as American cross-partisan hostility was rising. I believe the conflict reached its boiling point in the fall of 2015 when student protesters at 80 universities demanded that their universities make much greater and more explicit commitments to social justice, often including mandatory courses and training for everyone in social justice perspectives and content.

Now that many university presidents have agreed to implement many of the demands, I believe that the conflict between truth and social justice is likely to become unmanageable.* Universities will have to choose, and be explicit about their choice, so that potential students and faculty recruits can make an informed choice. Universities that try to honor both will face increasing incoherence and internal conflict."
------------------

I think it's clear Politics Alpha has chosen it's telos: social justice. They may believe they are capable of maintaining both purposes, truth and social justice, and they may be right. Let them try.

If this forum is to be different, let's try keeping this forum's telos singular, and let's make it's primary focus the pursuit of truth.

Having spent many years arguing with Chezlaw over in SMP, I can vouch for his fairness and integrity. He cares about truth. Yes, he's pretty far left on many things, and yes he prefers people be PC, and there's nothing wrong with PC - old school PC that is meant to show basic empathy toward minority groups whose experiences are often much different from those in the majority. So long as it's not misused to shield reality, or as a hammer to smash up sincere arguments, it's fine. I don't think Chezlaw will do that, and I think he would be a great moderator of a new politics forum with a tried and true old telos:

Many of you may disagree with me, and with Haidt's assessment of Universities these days as well. You may think you know the Truth, and we are at the End Of Knowledge... so their is nothing left to do but implement your very correct and sacred political views. You may think the world should be scrubbed of bigotry, and bigots themselves, or at very least 2+2.

Sounds like a lofty goal, but some of us obviously disagree with your methods. Some of us think you might not be the best people to decide who and what is bigoted, and we even suspect, based on the methods you encourage (stfu and go away you racist, sexist, ist-ist f%^%#%%$#%^#) you've even sort of lost grasp of how to tell right from wrong.

You think 2+2 should not be a "platform for bigotry", well I simply disagree. I think this place has so many super smart and well informed posters (even in P), it is exactly the place we should welcome bigots of all shapes and sizes to come and spout all their ignorant opinions for the smarter posters to knock down. We should not be afraid they will rub off on the weak minded, because we have so many smarty pants here to make better arguments. You are here to save the weak-minded from the fork-tongued devils who would otherwise surely bring on the apocalypse. And hey, you might even learn something too while you're at it......butnaaaaahahahahahhahaa.
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Old 01-06-2017, 05:00 PM   #40
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Re: Politics version 7.0 discussion safe space

lol politards, do you really think any sane person will wade thru all those words for a few shards of meaning. about something so inconsequential.
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Old 01-06-2017, 05:04 PM   #41
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Re: Politics version 7.0 discussion safe space

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Originally Posted by adios View Post
I made this post the other day. Happened even faster than I thought it would.
i too am impressed at the speed with which chez has made unchained a welcoming safe space for the bigoted population of 2+2.

I mean, what's wrong with people loudly and openly proclaiming that they're homophobes and don't like gay people? Adios isn't gay, it doesn't affect him, so who could have a problem with that?
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Old 01-06-2017, 05:08 PM   #42
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Re: Politics version 7.0 discussion safe space

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Originally Posted by kioshk View Post
lol politards, do you really think any sane person will wade thru all those words for a few shards of meaning. about something so inconsequential.
Probably nobody sane , but Mat seems to read them sometimes. Ask him who finally convinced him to open up this forum, and how well that's been going:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...low-stakes-nl/

As I recall, Wookie fought that tooth and nail as well.
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Old 01-06-2017, 05:36 PM   #43
kioshk
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Re: Politics version 7.0 discussion safe space

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Originally Posted by FoldnDark View Post
Probably nobody sane , but Mat seems to read them sometimes. Ask him who finally convinced him to open up this forum, and how well that's been going:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...low-stakes-nl/

As I recall, Wookie fought that tooth and nail as well.
seems like that should be worth a low stakes undertitle!

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arguing for low stakes
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Old 01-06-2017, 05:41 PM   #44
FoldnDark
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Re: Politics version 7.0 discussion safe space

Nah, I don't even post there anymore... I'll bet venice10 is the only one who even remembers me!

Edit: ahhh, hmm interesting...

Last edited by FoldnDark; 01-06-2017 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 01-06-2017, 06:38 PM   #45
bundy5
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Re: Politics version 7.0 discussion safe space

The bizarre need for an extra politics forum shows how bad the "official" politics forum is being run and this isn't just an overnight thing as Unchained has been around since I've been here and we are still debating and changing it mainly due to the inability to control the exiles from P that debate in it.

In one sense, I can't believe the powers at be haven't realised that if they just demodded Wookie and left him in charge of the Lounge where he can have his utopia of the left backslapping their every political thought and put someone like Chez in charge to see how it goes.

Maybe this whole experiment of him having politics version 7 is a lead up to that. Who knows?

But having Wookie there is unsustainable in the long term.
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Old 01-06-2017, 07:18 PM   #46
FoldnDark
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Re: Politics version 7.0 discussion safe space

There's like 234232 poker forums. Two politics subforums can't hurt too much. But yeah, Wookie can suck my left nut.
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Old 01-06-2017, 07:33 PM   #47
kioshk
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Re: Politics version 7.0 discussion safe space

Quote:
Originally Posted by bundy5 View Post
The bizarre need for an extra politics forum shows how bad the "official" politics forum is being run and this isn't just an overnight thing as Unchained has been around since I've been here and we are still debating and changing it mainly due to the inability to control the exiles from P that debate in it.

In one sense, I can't believe the powers at be haven't realised that if they just demodded Wookie and left him in charge of the Lounge where he can have his utopia of the left backslapping their every political thought and put someone like Chez in charge to see how it goes.

Maybe this whole experiment of him having politics version 7 is a lead up to that. Who knows?

But having Wookie there is unsustainable in the long term.
very true, very well put. It mirrors the rapini situation in brick and mortar, all these gyrations to suit the bizarre personal stylings of one oddball problem mod.
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Old 01-06-2017, 07:46 PM   #48
gregorio
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Re: Politics version 7.0 discussion safe space

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Originally Posted by FoldnDark View Post
But yeah, Wookie can suck my left nut.
This isn't a politics forum. Keep this crap out of here.
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Old 01-06-2017, 07:54 PM   #49
kioshk
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Re: Politics version 7.0 discussion safe space

haha the sidebar says More Politics now.
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Old 01-06-2017, 07:55 PM   #50
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Re: Politics version 7.0 discussion safe space

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Originally Posted by kioshk View Post
very true, very well put. It mirrors the rapini situation in brick and mortar, all these gyrations to suit the bizarre personal stylings of one oddball problem mod.
And what happened there?

Much to Rapini's credit that the creation of a new forum ("Mortar and Brick") (even though it doesn't exist anymore) and the addition of one or two new moderators has really caused "Live Casino Poker" (or "Brick and Mortar" as it was originally called) to be a much more palatable option when you are considering whether to post in it or not, notwithstanding a couple issues that continue to arise with some moderator decisions but that is like with any forums and is far less than what it used to be from what I can see.

I also think that having a moderation thread (in the case of the "Live Casino Poker" thread it is a sticky) adds something to the level of trust and accountability that you can have when posting there that there is a place where you can seek explanations for why certain moderating decisions were made. And at the very least if Wookie is not to be removed that this should be a requirement for P to make him more accountable for his editing, deleting and temp (or permanent) banning of members.
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