Improve HH converter

[Douggyfr3sh]

So the HH converter integrated into the forums is great, but there is a small feature of it that should be improved. When you open the HH converter, you can choose to not show results, show them, or show them in a spoiler. The default setting is to show in a spoiler. This should be changed so that the default is to not show results. There is a 100% chance that when anyone posts results, spoiled or not, they will be told not to at least once in the thread. Inexperienced users are probably going to go with the default setting, so why not make it to not show results?

[plaaynde]

I like the default spoiler. The actual cards villain has aren't totally without relevance, they add maybe 10% information to the hand analysis.

Everybody should teach themselves not to be results orientated. But totally blackening out available information by default is a bad way to try to achieve that, imo. Having the result without spoiler is too much though, you should have an option to do the analysis without seeing it. Partial hiding by spoiler is the ideal solution, imo.

[Douggyfr3sh]

Originally Posted by plaaynde

I like the default spoiler. The actual cards villain has aren't totally without relevance, they add maybe 10% information to the hand analysis.

Everybody should teach themselves not to be results orientated. But totally blackening out available information by default is a bad way to try to achieve that, imo. Having the result without spoiler is too much though, you should have an option to do the analysis without seeing it. Partial hiding by spoiler is the ideal solution, imo.

Disagree. You are assuming that not having the showdown means that we don't know heroes hand. Every HH I have ever seen includes hero hole cards dealt pre... knowing villains' exact hand at showdown can not help analysis and only makes some analyses results oriented.

[plaaynde]

Originally Posted by Douggyfr3sh

Disagree. You are assuming that not having the showdown means that we don't know heroes hand. Every HH I have ever seen includes hero hole cards dealt pre... knowing villains' exact hand at showdown can not help analysis and only makes some analyses results oriented.

You are 90% right. But every hand we play and see adds to our knowledge. You have to learn how villain thinks, how he in fact plays hands. Only way to achieve that is looking at how villain handles the cards he's got. I'm using instant replay a lot. The variance is very great, so the information you get from villain's actual cards in a specific hand is very limited. The 10% information I'm talking about comes from the fact that you have a possibility to put the analysis to a kind of reality check that isn't very important for a single hand, but cumulativey is extremely important. You ultimately have to adapt to the playing style villains have in different games, and not knowing how they are playing their cards are detrimental for that. Your analysis runs the risk of being too theoretical if you totally ignore results.

[Douggyfr3sh]

Your argument is pretty flawed, of course you are going to look at what villain shows up with when doing your own analysis of your database, but showing what villain showed up with in a single hand on 2+2 asking for analysis is not going to help you. Your post should include relevant reads and maybe what villain has showed up with in similar spots in the past.

[plaaynde]

Originally Posted by Douggyfr3sh

Your argument is pretty flawed, of course you are going to look at what villain shows up with when doing your own analysis of your database

Why are you seeing that as relevant, why not blacken out the villains' hands? (Just confronting a bit)

, but showing what villain showed up with in a single hand on 2+2 asking for analysis is not going to help you. Your post should include relevant reads and maybe what villain has showed up with in similar spots in the past.

You are giving valuable information, that's good. I can't really understand why that should exclude the result in the actual hand, if it's spoilered.

If you by default never would see the results in hands that are analyzed I think it would be bad. At least for me. The types of hands posted can be scewed for example, and having even the possibility to see the hands villains have at showdown is a good thing, if used right.

On the contrary, the spoilered result can even enhance an analysis of what's results oriented and what's not.

See it like this: I'm only one voice, and I'm finding the spoiler useful. I'm finding that your suggestion of changing the HH converter default is for the worse, even if I understand what you are after.

Maybe we should give other people a possibility to give their opinion now


PS: I'm naturally respecting if you want to post your hand histories without the results spoiler, and everybody else who wants to. I'm just thinking, that on a greater scale, it's better if the spoilered result is there by default than that it wouldn't. So is life, different opinions.

[caseycjc]

Knowing the final outcome can influence the feedback the OP gets. I agree that the default shouldn't show the final outcome. That being said a new poster should be able to figure this out after posting his first HH.

[Douggyfr3sh]

Plaaynde you are of course entitled to your own opinion and I am glad you shared it itt, thank you. The main reason I don't agree is what casey just said. I hope that more users post on this matter.

[plaaynde]

A simple reason for leaving it as it is, is that's easier to delete the spoiler when seeing it than searching for the checking box that enables the spoiler. Some would probably even check the "show results without spoiler" wich I agree is bad in normal hand analysis. The spoiler is in first place a compromise.

For BBV threads you just take the [spoil] and [spoil/] away, convenient. How could you otherwise make posts like this:

*** http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=33236494&postcount=24919 ***

[Douggyfr3sh]

Originally Posted by plaaynde

A simple reason for leaving it as it is, is that's easier to delete the spoiler when seeing it than searching for the checking box that enables the spoiler. Some would probably even check the "show results without spoiler" wich I agree is bad in normal hand analysis. The spoiler is in first place a compromise.

For BBV threads you just take the [spoil] and [spoil/] away, convenient. How could you otherwise make posts ...

That's actually a very good point. I didn't really think about how many hands are posted where analysis is not wanted, such as a bbv post. I still think posting showdown spoiled or not in an op asking for analysis is kinda retarded, but now I see why having "show results as spoiler" as the default isn't a bad option. BTW that link is a hilarious post haha