I someone having a "hammer and sickle" in their avatar. I was suggested to do a thread here about banning those offensive and disrespectful avatars (swastika, hammer and sickle etc).
I know that there are people who dont find "hammer and sickle" direspectful so I think I should list few of my reasoning why I do.

1) I know that "hammer and sickle" are sign of communism (which Im sure isnt always a bad thing) - but for ex-Soviet countries it will usually only symbolize one thing.
2) I know that Nazi crimes are talked about a lot, because they were crimes against race and Soviet crimes werent.
Soviet crimes were made for fear - all of those victims were killed to make people scared. Thats what communism stands on - fear (not only in Soviet Russia, but in almost all (if not all) communism countries). I think there are not a single person who wasnt affected one way or the other - thats carefully calculated plan.
Those people were killed (or sent to die in Siberia), not because they did something wrong, but because government gave numbers (not names, just numbers). They had plans for everything (I have heard a story - how hospital wrote wrong date of death, because plan for deaths was full for that month).
3) Some people are still afraid that Soviet crimes go on still today (but this goes in the dark area of conspiracy). But you can understand why people (even 20 years later) have fear for history to repeat itself.

For more info you can just watch videos of Soviet crimes in youtube or something.
For those reasons I ask for those symbols to be banned - I dont think Im the only one who gets chills from them. As a joke - they are not funny and as a sign of support - well thats even worse.

This is an interesting topic. I once started an ATF thread about Confederate flag avatars (mostly from a pro prospective), and I specifically mentioned Nazi and Soviet flags as being inappropriate in the original post.

I don't really think they should be banned, but it definitely calls a poster's judgment into question if they choose to use them.

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Estonia
Posts: 462

An interesting stance OP, given that your own government finds that freedom of expression trumps potential offence.

The problem I see here is that, rightly or wrongly, the hammer and sickle hasn't approached anywhere near the level of unacceptability of the swastika. It's still used in the logo of Russian Airlines (Aeroflot), and is used on the flags or as logos of communist parties in many countries as well as other organizations - some more unsavoury than others, of course.

Oh well, seems that my government doesnt share my view, but then again - I dont let my government or my country define me.
But yes my country takes great pride for having high freedom of expression.
Still we dont go around wearing swastikas and/or "hammer and sickle"s (most of us have brains that say whats inappropriate and wrong, plus our society is pretty quick to tell you (and judging you) when you are doing something wrong).

Yet - should we have that freedom in here, where it seems like not everyone has a good judgment (plus the sense of anonymity that wont let the "society" do its corrections). And I said avatars, because I agree that in certain context, posting a "inappropriate" sign can be appropriate, yet I cant see one context where those avatars could be appropriate (plus when I open a history thread I know what to expect and can avoid it if I feel hurt by that sign, but when its someones avatar - you wont have any "warning").

I'm a communist. Are you saying it would be so inappropriate for me to use a hammer and sickle as an avatar that I should be banned from doing so, even though I think it might be an appropriate symbol for me to use, because it means something else to you?

I consider public display of the confederate flag to be offensive, because to me it represents one thing, and that thing is abhorrent. (See kioshk's post above.) Should I try to get 2p2 to ban display of that flag, even though some users think it an appropriate symbol to use?

It is people like you who give these symbols power.

When they become suppressed and censored they gain a cachet that attracts a certain type of person to them (e.g. skinheads / swastika). They are used to foster a climate of hate and fear.

Only by trivialising such symbols can we rob them of their power.

The avatar for some teenage nerdy tard posting lame comments in NVG seems like a good place to start.

I confess to having once used the North Korean flag as my avatar, but I was being ironic.

Just for a day or two!

Pick my religion.

I see it - if we take 100 people and for 90 of them it represents one thing (hurtful at that) and for other 10 it represents the other thing then those 10 must change their behavior (and Im sorry for being cruel to minority, but thats just how society works). Plus as a communist you should know better then anyone else that sometimes individual doesnt matter and its all about community (after all - thats what communism stands for). I also cant see anyone being communist after those major flaws in the system, that arent fixed, but thats OT.
Edit - plus there has always been a chance to pick a new symbol (why on hell do communists want to be related to Soviet - should raise some warning flags).

The hammer and sickle is undeniably a political symbol. 2+2 does not censor political symbols in avatars, nor should they. If you do not like this policy, please click My 2+2 -> Edit Opitions -> [ ] Show Avatars.

So you mean just because forbidden fruit tastes better we should let them be? How about alcohol laws (you know those that put certain age, where it becomes allowed)? Should we just allow 12 year olds to buy alcohol? I mean with that logic - 12 year old who is allowed to buy alcohol wont buy it, but 12 year old who isnt allowed to buy alcohol will buy it. I didnt quit drinking just because I got to the legal age (If anything it was the other way around).
If you know something about skinheads, then you should know that those people have some serious brain damage - and they are not attracted because its legal/illelgal - they are attracted because they seriously belive in "one race".
Those symbols have power without me and they should have it. Those symbols have their place - they are there so we wont forget our history - history is there so we could learn to not make the same mistakes again. And they should be forbitted (they are hurtful and disrespectful without a right context and they will remind hurtful memories to people that went through it). And they should shock. And closing your eyes and saying "If I belive hard enough then it will go away, as if it has never happend" is wrong - its what lets the history repeat itself. If we keep it in our memory and know how much it hurts then maybe if there is "another Hitler" we can say - "no we wont stand it!"
How would you feel if at night a truck will stop at your door (you get 20 minutes to pack your bags) and they will take you and your family to a railway station where you will be isolated from your family (and they load you to a cattle car and off you go to Siberia - where there is cold and no food etc) - and miraculously you return (about 20 years later) to find that your family died in Siberia (starvation) and then you see a flag that symbolises it all. Can you just tell yourself that this is just a flag?
So Im going with - in right context they should have their place, as a shocking reminders, yet they should not be widely accepted.

Yes! In soviet Russia, symbols trivialize you!

So is Swastika a religious symbol? Does 2+2 accept Swastika?

If your point with the images of religious swastikas is that it's clear we should suppress display thereof because it's offensive to many, then you're barking up the wrong tree to the extent you're talking to me. But I'll concede that most people think the swastika is so offensive that it is a good idea to ban it from certain private forums such as websites. (Some countries ban display completely, but others, such as mine, do not.)

But the hammer and sickle is clearly different, so even if you think the swastika should be banned from 2p2 (which, again, I disagree with, but I'll leave that for now), the same reasoning does not apply to the hammer and sickle. Why? Because the swastika, at least in its Nazi incarnation, is almost always displayed with an intent to be hurtful. The essence of Naziism, at least as it survives today, is persecution of various groups, and the symbol emphasizes that persecution. The hammer and sickle is not like that — its essence is to symbolize not persecution, but a politico-economic system, and one displaying it would likely be making a statement that is not intended to be hurtful to any group.

2p2 could do as you say. They already ban certain words, simply because they are offensive to many; symbols are communication just as clearly as words are, so the rule could be applied. But displaying a hammer and sickle isn't like waving a swastika or calling someone a ******, which we can guess not only is offensive to many, but is usually intended to be. It's not even as bad as the stars and bars, which is a symbol glorifying a society that was built upon the right of a white man to own a black man but which is probably displayed almost as often to symbolize pride in the modern south as a hankering for the good old days of slavery.

ITS A 80 x 80 PICTURE ON THE INTERNET DUDE

block it if it causes the sand to get so far up your vag

Stop being oversensitive.

Better dead than red!

I'd give them credit for fighting the Nazis, except for that little non-aggression pact they signed with Hitler early on.

Guess Im the minority that needs to deal with it. Also some people being ignorant.

You mean the pact were they divided all easter-Europe between themselfs.
Weird to think that first - Russia trained the Nazi army.

I find this topic is innappropriate and offends my deepest core beliefs.

I want it taken down.

the swastika is a religious symbol?

damn, no luck for a simple drawing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwa...asion_01.shtml

Using a swastika as an avatar is out of the question I guess. Has anybody tried? Maybe it's so bad because it was chosen by the crazy man himself for tainting. The hammer and sickle are older and not so tightly defined. Moreover, communism was at least in theory better than nazism.

This thread is worthless without cacti.

this

let people have their own political views

The swastika has been used throughout history long before Hitlers great x20 grandfather was even born.

Some people just go out of their way today to be offended. Grow a backbone.