Clarification about quoting copyrighted material - About the Forums

Hopey · 08-08-2009, 04:50 PM

What's the rule for quoting from copyrighted material? Most of the forums in 2+2 require that you post only the relevant portion of an article you are referencing, and then provide a link to the article -- rather than just simply posting the article in its entirety and/or not providing a link as to where you found it. Are the rules for quoting copyrighted material forum-specific, or are they site-wide?

For instance, is this kind of quoting in post kosher with 2+2:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...89&postcount=1

The poster quotes an entire article, but doesn't provide a link to the site where she found the article. I'm assuming that the user didn't ask for the writer's permission to reprint his article in its entirety on this forum.

I looked in the 2+2 TOS, but all I could find that relates to my question is this:

Quote:

In addition, you hereby agree not to use Your Content or the Service in any other matter to:

6. upload, post, email, transmit or otherwise make available any Content that infringes any patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright or other proprietary rights ("Rights") of Two Plus Two or of any party;

Would the post that I quoted violate this aspect of the TOS?

nham · 08-08-2009, 04:58 PM

i don't know how you can even read an OP that long...

yeah that does seem a bit unfair to the author. i'm sure twoplustwo publishing would have a problem if that was done with their own books.

Hopey · 08-08-2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nham

i don't know how you can even read an OP that long...

That's par for the course for this poster in particular. She's not the only one who quotes walls of text like this in RGT. She's just the most regular offender.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nham

yeah that does seem a bit unfair to the author. i'm sure twoplustwo publishing would have a problem if that was done with their own books.

That's what I was thinking.

duh · 08-08-2009, 05:00 PM

Umm that poster gives credit to the author in the beginning. There is no copyright issue.

And the rules regarding pasting entire articles is to keep the OP uncluttered, to the point,on topic, and easy to read. It doesn't have anything to do with copyrights. Mods can correct me if I'm wrong.

Hopey · 08-08-2009, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duh

Umm that poster gives credit to the author in the beginning. There is no copyright issue.

I know she gives the author credit, but she's also posting the *entire article* -- not just a selection from it. Presumably the site that the article was originally posted on makes money through running advertising. The site may have even paid the author for the right to post his article on their site. I don't think they'd take kindly to people cutting and pasting their articles and reposting them elsewhere so that people no longer have to visit their site for the information.

What if I were buy a copy of Time magazine every week and then scan every page into a public forum so that everyone could read the articles for free? How long would it take me to get a cease and desist order from Time's lawyers?

2/325Falcon · 08-08-2009, 05:10 PM

Just quote the wall of text and post "wat." It works for iron81 imo.

Edit: Wat.

duh · 08-08-2009, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hopey

What if I were buy a copy of Time magazine every week and then scan every page into a public forum so that everyone could read the articles for free? How long would it take me to get a cease and desist order from Time's lawyers?

I wonder why educators in Public and Private primary, seconday, and post seconday educational institutions are not in jail? Just about every class I've taken my entire life required many many photocopies of copyrighted text. How can they let these criminals called teachers get away with it? oh wait....

And your analogy blows. A better one would involve just a single article from that magazine. In that case, not a damn thing would happen

Hopey · 08-08-2009, 05:44 PM

I found this interesting article on copyright law:

http://www.rbs2.com/copyr.htm

The article would seem to indicate that the post I linked to is in violation of copyright law:

Quote:

A user who copies text or pictures from one web site and then posts the material among the user's own web pages is generally infringing a copyright.

As for duh's comments about having photocopied articles in class, they would fall under fair use:

Quote:

It is not an infringement of copyright to make short quotations from a work for purposes of criticism, comment, teaching, scholarship, or research.

The post I linked to wasn't a "short quotation", it was a cut-and-paste of an entire article.

Mayo · 08-08-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duh

Umm that poster gives credit to the author in the beginning. There is no copyright issue.

It doesn't work like that. Not at all. Generally speaking you can't reproduce a copyrighted work in its entirety, with or without attribution.

Quoting only the most relevant bits and providing a link to the full text is by far the preferred method because it makes the thread easier to read and more focused, avoids these copyright issues, it is generally fairer to the rightful owner of the article (if you click the link to read the article, then you see the ads ant the article's owner gets more money), and it requires a thread starter to put some minimal amount of effort into their thread.

You (yes, you!) can help out mods by reporting a thread that you think might be a violation, which no one had done until I did just now. Mods miss stuff sometimes.

EDIT: To directly answer the OP's question, I believe that that post very clearly violates the portion of the TOS that you quoted.

**Bobo Fett** · 08-08-2009, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duh

I wonder why educators in Public and Private primary, seconday, and post seconday educational institutions are not in jail? Just about every class I've taken my entire life required many many photocopies of copyrighted text. How can they let these criminals called teachers get away with it? oh wait....

Because they pay for that right. At least that's how it works in Canada.

Hopey · 08-08-2009, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayo

It doesn't work like that. Not at all. Generally speaking you can't reproduce a copyrighted work in its entirety, with or without attribution.

Quoting only the most relevant bits and providing a link to the full text is by far the preferred method because it makes the thread easier to read and more focused, avoids these copyright issues, it is generally fairer to the rightful owner of the article (if you click the link to read the article, then you see the ads ant the article's owner gets more money), and it requires a thread starter to put some minimal amount of effort into their thread.

Finally. Thank you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayo

You (yes, you!) can help out mods by reporting a thread that you think might be a violation, which no one had done until I did just now. Mods miss stuff sometimes.

The poster in question violates copyright in just about every thread she starts -- and she starts A LOT of threads. The RGT mod posts in a good number of those threads. I've never seen any of her posts get edited for copyright issues by the moderator of that forum. As a result, her walls of text have turned into a bit of a running joke in that forum.

Also, I wanted to make sure that my understanding of what constitutes copyright violation was accurate before I started notifying the mod about posts like the one I'd linked to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayo

EDIT: To directly answer the OP's question, I believe that that post very clearly violates the portion of the TOS that you quoted.

Thanks again.

nham · 08-09-2009, 12:15 AM

It doesn't work like that. Not at all. Generally speaking you can't reproduce a copyrighted work in its entirety, with or without attribution.

Quoting only the most relevant bits and providing a link to the full text is by far the preferred method because it makes the thread easier to read and more focused, avoids these copyright issues, it is generally fairer to the rightful owner of the article (if you click the link to read the article, then you see the ads ant the article's owner gets more money), and it requires a thread starter to put some minimal amount of effort into their thread.

You (yes, you!) can help out mods by reporting a thread that you think might be a violation, which no one had done until I did just now. Mods miss stuff sometimes.

EDIT: To directly answer the OP's question, I believe that that post very clearly violates the portion of the TOS that you quoted.

Mayo · 08-09-2009, 12:59 AM

**tuq** · 08-09-2009, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayo

Quoting only the most relevant bits and providing a link to the full text is by far the preferred method because it makes the thread easier to read and more focused, avoids these copyright issues, it is generally fairer to the rightful owner of the article (if you click the link to read the article, then you see the ads ant the article's owner gets more money), and it requires a thread starter to put some minimal amount of effort into their thread.

I have tried to explain this to Assani "the rules don't apply to me" Fisher, but as usual all he does is throw his hands in the air and make a bunch of noise.

To be fair, I wasn't aware of the exact protocol but I was pretty sure that partially quoting an article and then providing a link was fair game. I certainly hope so, it's a functional teaser to get people to click through.

ctyri · 08-09-2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duh

I wonder why educators in Public and Private primary, seconday, and post seconday educational institutions are not in jail? Just about every class I've taken my entire life required many many photocopies of copyrighted text. How can they let these criminals called teachers get away with it? oh wait...

As an educator, I can say you are completely wrong. Some distribute copyrighted material in its entirety, and yes that is a crime. If you post or hand out a graph or table and source it, this is within the rules of academia and copyright law. Schools pay a fortune for online resources (journals, standards, etc.) for use by the school. Textbook publishers give teachers free copies of texts and resources for their consideration for use by students as required text. If a teacher just took their eval copies and started handing out photocopies of them and this was found out, I have little doubt that a complaint would be charged. And rightly so.