Viffer vs Hellmuth - Poker Beats Brags and Variance

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Viffer vs Hellmuth

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07-19-2008 , 11:01 AM

hav0c

adept

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 936

Couldn't be bothered posting on the TV forum. Who else thought a 3bet/call by Viffer there was anything but spew?

And he'd been playing well up till then (although i'm not a massive fan of smallball).

07-19-2008 , 11:11 AM

evilhamit

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 551

good thing there's a link and a description of what happened.
also very interesting to learn that you are not a massive fan of smallball.
thanks for the OP, OP!!

07-19-2008 , 11:20 AM

hav0c

adept

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 936

just assumed everyone knew what i was talking about. funny thing is, you probably did, but you just decided to be a prick and flame rather than offer your opinion on the hand :>

07-19-2008 , 11:30 AM

NoahSD

Is Right

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 18,843

right.. because hellmuth and viffer have played one hand together... the most famous hand ever played.

07-19-2008 , 12:24 PM

sheDoesntLikeit

journeyman

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 242

07-19-2008 , 12:49 PM

ChrisTC

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 267

Viffer raises pre with AQ. Hellmuth calls with 44. Flop comes A4x (Q4x?). Viffer bets, Hellmuth raises, Viffer 3-bets. This is followed by the Phil-Hellmuth-Instashove™, and Viffer calls it off. That's how I remember it.

07-19-2008 , 12:52 PM

bobboufl11

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 14,329

He may or may not have had to commit based on stack sizes I don't remember. 3 betting the flop was pretty spewy against Hellmuth specifically, imo, and he should have got the money in a different way

07-19-2008 , 01:01 PM

a5wantinga10

banned

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,089

it sounds nitty but i can fold AQ there vs Hellmuth imo. they were 300BB deep-ish i think.

no strat in BBV but Hellmuth never has KQ or KJ there. durrrr playing very well imo.

07-19-2008 , 01:08 PM

cero_dinero

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,185

yeah i was like screaming speeeeeew that whole hand. it's a really hard spot not to lose a lot of money even if he calls flop. hellmuth is bad enough to be raising KQ on that flop but he would def fold KQ if he got 3bet imo.

must have been nice to pick up AA vs KK tho

07-19-2008 , 01:12 PM

#10

bobboufl11

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 14,329

It was a 3 bet pot iirc, something like 20K+ already in there and they had like 150K-200K behind...in the long run I'd say you lose money if you fold especially the way that game's been playing. I give Hellmuth credit for setting up his dumb slowplaying image and then using it by raising the set on that dry board

07-19-2008 , 01:39 PM

#11

MCdisciple

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 293

Hellmuth limped in first position, called BTN raise, then check-raised flop.

07-19-2008 , 01:43 PM

#12

isipil

adept

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,178

viffer is such a donk, his hair his the only thing worse than his play

07-19-2008 , 02:02 PM

#13

MCdisciple

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 293

Apparantly he crushes cash games at the Ballagio. Based on the limited number of hands you have seen him play, don't call him a donkey just yet!

07-19-2008 , 02:04 PM

#14

Micro Donk

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 7,581

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCdisciple

Apparantly he crushes cash games at the Ballagio. Based on the limited number of hands you have seen him play, don't call him a donkey just yet!

thats actually a large sample size for hellmuthians

07-19-2008 , 02:07 PM

#15

MCdisciple

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 293

Micro Donk how on earth did you get to 6,803 posts in under a year?!

07-19-2008 , 02:29 PM

#16

ImsaKidd

CHOO CHOO

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 20,758

There were 2 limps I think, viffer raised out of the sb to like 2200, flop QT4, viffer leads like 5k, hellmuth makes a speech and makes it 20k, viffer thinks and raisey-daiseys to 70k, hellmuth instajams for around 130-140k total, viffer tanks forever, calls.

Then hellmuth spends forever getting insurance instead of just running it twice or something.

07-19-2008 , 02:44 PM

#17

isipil

adept

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,178

wtf should u get insurance as a 96% favourite

07-19-2008 , 02:57 PM

#18

thisnamedoesntfi

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,433

Quote:

Originally Posted by isipil

wtf should u get insurance as a 96% favourite

Wealth management LDO.

07-19-2008 , 03:22 PM

#19

Wolitzer

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,515

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImsaKidd

hellmuth instajams for around 130-140k total.

Even did his ******ed little push too. Notice his mood insta-pickup after the hand? Say it felt great after he felt Viffer was needling him previously.

07-19-2008 , 04:15 PM

#20

thrasher789

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,541

I had bearely heard of Viffere before this but I'm not all that impressed with him after this, anyone else see the hand where he raised pre with QTs, flop comes J72r, Baxter has a set and pots it, Guy puts in a substantial riase with 23s (lolz) and then Viffer makes it like 30k with air, so weird/bad. He then of course goes on to check call a 50k bet on turn when he made and openender and check/fold 50k on river when he misses and he acts like it was a tough hand or something, whackest hand of the week imo.

07-19-2008 , 04:22 PM

#21

hav0c

adept

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 936

yea sorry about not making it clear which hand it was.

it screamed spew over here. i think OOP baxter could've 3bet to 50k, and folded to a shove. I think calling is pretty heavily negative freeroll, and folding is too weak considering they are playing the 72 game. and hellmuth is too nitty to bluffshove over a weak 3bet.

haven't seen friday yet. will comment when it's out online, i guess.

by the way hellmuth is a total ****ing ass for asking for insurance there. and making such a big fuss over it. that's probably the sickest part of it, i mean... what the ****. that's way worse than slowrolling.

07-19-2008 , 04:30 PM

#22

PiquetteAces

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 649

Quote:

Originally Posted by isipil

wtf should u get insurance as a 96% favourite

People take life'insurance, car'insurance & blackjack'insurance, even if they are more than 96% favorite.

ohhhhh wait, I might be wrong for the blackjack'insurance !

- jpp

07-19-2008 , 04:37 PM

#23

Micro Donk

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 7,581

Quote:

Originally Posted by thrasher789

so viffer couldnt have seen baxters bet as pretty much a donk bet, and the other raise as a bluff. if baxter doesnt have a set it works (since theres not really a 2p combo possible)

07-19-2008 , 04:40 PM

#24

gregorio

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 39,313

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImsaKidd

Viffer had about 115k total, so Hellmuth's shove was a little less than a min-raise. Viffer was considering folding until he realized Hellmuth had him more than covered and how little he had left to call, and that made the decision easier for him.

OP, if only you had posted this in TV forum, you would have seen the 10 page thread and been able to read Viffer's comments on the hand, as well as fslexduck's.

07-19-2008 , 04:41 PM

#25

hav0c

adept

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 936

fslexduck = vanessa selbst?

but yea, i'm following the PAD cash game thread in televised poker already. but it's like, 75 pages of spam about how e-thugs want to smash durrr for his metrosexuality.

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