"Totally agree, online and live are two forms of poker which are very different"

I didnt say this though rob. I said it was interesting how the players approach situations and review plays differently. the game may play a bit different, but its still the same.

"And the reads you describe are hardly "spectacular" in nature .. quite the opposite ... such are routine and need to be thought of as 'business as usual' .. no different than a quick scan of a new online opponent's stats before deciding how to play against their frequent button raises."

this was a sarcastic little dig, sorry rob. i dont believe much in the live player read mumbo jumbo... its called hand reading and i do it just as well online as i do live. tomayto, tomahto, its just poker.

"Such is why the need for ACCURACY and making the correct IN THE MOMENT decision, first and foremost, means much more to a live player."

This is backwards thinking. The online winners have to be even more accurate because they do get more hands. We would go bust that much faster.

What I was getting at was that the online players (the winners) are making the correct play nearly everytime because theyre arent thinking the way the live nit/grinders are.

edited to add: im not saying the nits arent making +ev plays, just the online guys are making higher ev plays.

you don't believe in live reads? You think it's all mumbo jumbo? So the examples I cited early in this thread, you think I'm just making them up, or that they don't exist? Seriously? When I play online, and the flush card hits, is there any way to KNOW if they guy hit his flush or not? How can anybody possibly KNOW, it's just an educated guess as far as I can tell, based on math and that particular player's tendancies. Live, such a situation occurs to me totally differently ... when I play live .. there are a multitude of indications if THIS time the player hit the flush ... things I have detailed earlier. Do you really think such is bs?

I think I get it. I guess my question comes down to this ... if a player is "new" and thus you have no prior stats ... what possible basis do you have for making a long call, assuming the player is not a moron and mixes their play up making just enough big bluffs to keep you guessing? I mean, you need SOME basis to make decisions, don't you? When I play live, I feel so much more enlightened, so much more aware of what my opponent's holdings most likely are .. online .. with strong opponents .. it occurs to me as so much more about guessing better than my opponents over a series of many MANY situations.

I dunno, there's obviously a reason I win so often playing live, and not nearly as often playing online. You can argue that the competition is better online, I certainly agree that online players play ONLINE POKER better than i do ... but I've read nothing convincing me in this thread that online players can dominate live players in a live environment. When all the insults and jabbering die down, there isn't much evidence of such that I can see.

isn't there like a huge list of people willing to take you up on a prop bet for a lot of money, people that play poker for a living and make ****loads of cash doing it and are all really excited about your proposition while knowing nothing about you?

yeah you're right, that wouldn't convince me either.

"you don't believe in live reads? You think it's all mumbo jumbo? So the examples I cited early in this thread, you think I'm just making them up, or that they don't exist? Seriously?... Live, such a situation occurs to me totally differently ... when I play live .. there are a multitude of indications if THIS time the player hit the flush ... things I have detailed earlier. Do you really think such is bs?"

pretty much.

"When I play online, and the flush card hits, is there any way to KNOW if they guy hit his flush or not? How can anybody possibly KNOW, it's just an educated guess as far as I can tell, based on math and that particular player's tendancies. "

theyre not educated guesses for some of us rob. i know exactly what to do, everytime.

live tells exist, but in high stakes games theyre the last thing im relying upon. theyre maybe 10% of the equation vs poor players and even less vs good ones.

and hint: tells exist online. huge ones. HUGE ones. the same basic one exists live. but it has absolutely nothing to do with magical soul reading. its just called hand reading. and when you pay attention to how the other player is playing his hand and you are able to eliminate how he would play what, bam! soul reading applied and it just doesnt seem that spectacular anymore. its just playing winning poker.

ps: when you arent being purposefully obtuse you come off as a good guy. a lot easier to have a discussion with.

hand reading is pretty much standard, at least i think it is for anybody who has played a lot of poker ... live or online. You say you always know what to do when your opponent moves in after the flush card hits?

Can you articulate what you do to "hand read" in situations like this? I've spent some time earlier articulating the types of things I look for in live play ... such is hardly mystical soul reading ... it's how one decodes human shielding ... much of which happens totally subconsciously and therefore difficult to mask. But I'm not trying to convince you, if you don't agree, you don't agree ...

I am interested though in your ability to always know what to do via hand reading. Can you articulate such in the AK example I laid out earlier?

Yeah, I got staked and have three matches set up for what occurs to me as significant stakes .. I'm quite interested in how they turn out. The button occurs to me as over-rated by a majority of online pros who haven't played live .. especially in a live match with escalating blinds, since there are several rather obvious ways to force the action and reduce the inherent advantages of acting last every time. There are some advantages to acting first, especially against a player unaccustomed to shielding their holdings in real-time .. simply because they MUST react to their opponent's decision .. over and over .. every single time. And such occurs to me as significant. Maybe I'm wrong about this ... I guess we will see.

Out of interest, would you play a heads up deepstack live game with an online player using the usual shifting button.

A lot of what you write is that you read people better and that is what is most important in deepstacked games where errors in the big key pots are magnified quite grossly.

If a solid online only player, who has played little to no live play (ie they played drunken home games but have played little to never in a casino), challeneged you to such a deepstack HU match, would you accept?

In theory if you accept that the player is a better more fundamentally sound player im sure you could handicap it, but this right here is going to be the closest form of poker to what you claim online players are worst at and you only need to give up the button 50% of the time.

Win win? If you wish to play this scenario, please say so, im sure a suitable player could be found for it, and it also means you can play for much more money in the game since the backers of the chosen online horse wont be put off by a silly tournament rising blinds structure.

I'm not a HU specialist, by any means. I'm okay at 6-9 handed live games though. So it really depends on the player. I would certainly cross-book in a live game against any live noob however .. ie .. I match the other player's win, as well as ship them the equivalent of my loss and vica versa. I have a number of HU matches currently set up as specifiied ... we went through all of this in this thread awhile ago ... and there is another thread set up in the HS forum discussing the challenge.

Nice TR OP!

Lol at robuflop. Your arguments are laughable

Age requirement at lucky chances?