STOP OVERPLAYING POCKET PAIRS AND WHINING WHEN YOU LOSE WITH THEM!1!!1 - Page 8

Kala1928 · 07-08-2006, 02:36 PM

3:1 is the new coinflip

bottomset · 07-08-2006, 03:19 PM

when I was still new to 2+2, I used to think that all the posters were winning players. I have since realized how ignorant I was back then, this thread is a good reminder

Andrew Karpinski · 07-08-2006, 03:20 PM

Quote:

3:1 is the new coinflip

rigged

jman220 · 07-08-2006, 10:37 PM

Quote:

when I was still new to 2+2, I used to think that all the posters were winning players. I have since realized how ignorant I was back then, this thread is a good reminder

Yes, all the people who posted in this thread arguing that I was wrong are clearly losing players. Do you see why?

jman220 · 07-08-2006, 10:38 PM

Quote:

3:1 is the new coinflip

Thats because a head is considerably heavier than a tail.

jman220 · 07-08-2006, 10:43 PM

Quote:

3:1 is the new coinflip

rigged

People who think online poker is rigged only do because they're too dense to realize that when their pocket pairs get "cracked," thats not a bad beat, they were in fact 3:1 dogs.

CheckRaise · 07-08-2006, 11:03 PM

I

this thread, jman you are a true innovator

2+2 wannabe · 07-08-2006, 11:05 PM

Quote:

I

this thread, jman you are a true poker theorist

jman220 · 07-08-2006, 11:16 PM

Quote:

I

this thread, jman you are a true innovator

Thank you, I try.

RikaKazak · 07-09-2006, 12:23 AM

OH MY GOD!!! This is SO HILARIOUS!!!

KOTLP · 07-09-2006, 12:49 AM

Quote:

jman, are you saying AK when it misses the flop is fav over a PP? NO ITS NOT. True the AK has 6 outs but the PP has 2 outs to make trips and 9 outs (pairing any of the flop cards) to make 2 pair. Thats 12 outs against the AKs 6 outs, 12/6=2 so the PP is 2/1 fav but since there are 2 cards to come 2/2=1 its even money. Hence the phrase coinflip for PPs vs AK.

The "coinflip" is a common misconception. First, the "9 outs" you refer to to "pair any of the flop cards" exists for the overcards too, so those can't be addressed here. Its very simple, the better hand in poker is the one with more outs. Clearly, AK has more outs than QQ, therefoer AK is a strong favorte 6 outs versus 2 outs is a 3:1 favorite. Stop overplaying your pocket pairs moran!

Exactly. How do these morans not understand this simple math. AK BEATS POCKET PAIRS MORANS. Hell, it beats 9 AT THE SAME TIME.

Hand 1: 19.4081 % 19.33% 00.07% { AcKc }
Hand 2: 02.9314 % 02.86% 00.07% { 2d2h }
Hand 3: 03.6356 % 03.56% 00.07% { 3d3h }
Hand 4: 04.7415 % 04.67% 00.07% { 5d5h }
Hand 5: 05.8628 % 05.79% 00.07% { 6d6h }
Hand 6: 07.4459 % 07.37% 00.07% { 7d7h }
Hand 7: 09.3428 % 09.27% 00.07% { 8d8h }
Hand 8: 12.1555 % 12.08% 00.07% { 9d9h }
Hand 9: 15.5869 % 15.51% 00.07% { TdTh }
Hand 10: 18.8896 % 18.82% 00.07% { JdJh }

jman220 · 07-09-2006, 01:14 PM

Quote:

jman, are you saying AK when it misses the flop is fav over a PP? NO ITS NOT. True the AK has 6 outs but the PP has 2 outs to make trips and 9 outs (pairing any of the flop cards) to make 2 pair. Thats 12 outs against the AKs 6 outs, 12/6=2 so the PP is 2/1 fav but since there are 2 cards to come 2/2=1 its even money. Hence the phrase coinflip for PPs vs AK.

The "coinflip" is a common misconception. First, the "9 outs" you refer to to "pair any of the flop cards" exists for the overcards too, so those can't be addressed here. Its very simple, the better hand in poker is the one with more outs. Clearly, AK has more outs than QQ, therefoer AK is a strong favorte 6 outs versus 2 outs is a 3:1 favorite. Stop overplaying your pocket pairs moran!

Exactly. How do these morans not understand this simple math. AK BEATS POCKET PAIRS MORANS. Hell, it beats 9 AT THE SAME TIME.

Hand 1: 19.4081 % 19.33% 00.07% { AcKc }
Hand 2: 02.9314 % 02.86% 00.07% { 2d2h }
Hand 3: 03.6356 % 03.56% 00.07% { 3d3h }
Hand 4: 04.7415 % 04.67% 00.07% { 5d5h }
Hand 5: 05.8628 % 05.79% 00.07% { 6d6h }
Hand 6: 07.4459 % 07.37% 00.07% { 7d7h }
Hand 7: 09.3428 % 09.27% 00.07% { 8d8h }
Hand 8: 12.1555 % 12.08% 00.07% { 9d9h }
Hand 9: 15.5869 % 15.51% 00.07% { TdTh }
Hand 10: 18.8896 % 18.82% 00.07% { JdJh }

That program seems buggy, as I've demonstrated, overcards should be more like 3:1, I mean I guess I didn't calculate it for there being 9 other people, but it still seems too low of an edge.

Dan Bitel · 07-09-2006, 10:03 PM

jman,

I think you're on to something:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

20,349 games 0.010 secs 2,034,900 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 24.9791 % 24.91% 00.07% { AcAd }
Hand 2: 75.0209 % 74.95% 00.07% { JsTs }

jman220 · 07-10-2006, 01:32 AM

Quote:

jman,

I think you're on to something:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

20,349 games 0.010 secs 2,034,900 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 24.9791 % 24.91% 00.07% { AcAd }
Hand 2: 75.0209 % 74.95% 00.07% { JsTs }

Thats awesome that they finally fixed the bug in pokerstove, and it now calculates outs properly. I'll have to download it now.

Demiparadigm · 07-12-2006, 01:21 PM

Quote:

P.S.

Pocket pairs vs. Overcards is a case of realistically vs. Potentially.

Realistically: KK holder has a pair of kings.
Potentially: KK holder has four of a kind, kings.

Realistically: A,K suited holder has high card ace, king kicker.
Potentially: AK suited holder has a royal flush.

Realistically, you win way more hands with a pair of kings than with high card ace, king kicker.

Potentially: OMG AKs IS SUCH grEAT hand morans

I don't think you stated this well, but your point that a straight flush beats 4 of a kind EVERY TIME is an important poker concept that was missing from the OP, and helps to explain why unpaired hands are favored preflop.