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View Poll Results: Shufflemaster card shufflers are shady
Yes 3 15.00%
No 17 85.00%
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Old 08-28-2010, 03:17 AM   #1
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Casino Card Shufflers are shady

The shuffle master card shufflers are used in 90% of the card rooms in the united states. They cost over $12,000 each and has a computer that doesn't shuffle the cards it puts them in a pre determined order (see included patent I found on google) it has a data port on it (why so much technology on a shuffler) it can tell the rank and suit of a card. It has a random number generator or RNG just like online. If they deal out slightly more bad beats and cold decks than the actual math would suggest, it would keep bad players in the games longer and thus allow the casinos to keep more tables going and allowing them more games to rake. If the bad players didn't suck out enough then they would get frustrated and quit or would go broke and not come back.*

But doesn't the deck get cut after it's taken out of the shuffler? Try this with a deck of cards: Pull out the aces, kings, and queens. Put the four aces in four separate piles, put two random cards on each ace, put a king on each pile, put three random cards on top of the kings, put a queen on each pile, put two cards on each queen, stack the four piles one on top of another and put the remaining twelve cards on top of the pack. Put this pack on the table, cut the deck in half and deal out ten hands of Texas Hold’em face up on the table. You will see a player with pocket aces, kings, and queens, even though you cut the deck. So with this example, you can see that a stacked deck is not necessarily negated by a single cut.

Try this ask the dealer to riffle the cards AFTER they take them out of the shuffle master. They floor won't let them, yet they can wash them before they pit them in the shuffler which actually takes more time. Now I don't think all these people are in on it, I'm sure shuffle master tells them it's the only way to make sure nobody is cheating etc.*

Why wouldn't state gaming stop them? Well as most of you know there are tons of people who think poker isn't a game of skill, that's what the big fight is about in congress, so gaming might actually SUPPORT fixing the game because now the game is truly random and bad players are not at a disadvantage to the good players! It's just like a slot machine or video poker this way. It's "more fair for everyone" this way.*

But wouldn't the shuffler deal the same number of suck outs to good players too? No! Here's why. Player A is a good player, player B is bad. Player A has QQ and player B has AK to keep it simple player A raises and player B calls...*
Flop 10-7-2 player A with QQ bets out 3/4 pot bad player B calls. Turn is another 2, player A bets the pot this time with his QQ, bad player B still calls and the river is a king! If you reverse the hands the good player would never call that turn bet, so he would never benefit from the higher than normal suck outs being delt out.

Also I believe a higher than normal amount of cold decks are being delt by the shufflemaster shufflers. I see more and more set over set vs. Flush vs higher flush type hands than ever before. What this does is take skill out of poker and basically randomly awards players winning pots, if your in the right seat you win that night, if your in the wrong seat you lose. If you think about it all that does over say a year of the same players playing is pass the chips back and forth allowing all players involved to win some nights as well as lose some nights keeping everyone interested and playing all while the casino rakes that same money every night it gets passed back and forth.*

Here's the patent I found on google patents: look at page 7
Then read page 23 section 0006! *
Page 27 section 0060 and on.
Page 38 of PDF or page 16 of the patent section 0144 states"as well as sort the cards in a predetermined order"*

Anyway I think it's safe to say way too much technology in something thats supposed to just shuffle the cards. **
*
http://www.google.com/patents/downlo...erview_r&cad=0 go to page 7, look familiar??? There are several patents that get more sophisticated as the years go on for the shuffle master.*
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Old 08-28-2010, 03:20 AM   #2
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Re: Casino Card Shufflers are shady

cool
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Old 08-28-2010, 03:42 AM   #3
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Re: Casino Card Shufflers are shady

yea, i thought this for a long time. if the dealer doesn't wash the deck i usually would get more lucky in certain positions during a session(not position dependent)
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Old 08-28-2010, 03:47 AM   #4
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Re: Casino Card Shufflers are shady

Doesnt seem too unbeleivable. Keep us updated bro.
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Old 08-28-2010, 04:35 AM   #5
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Re: Casino Card Shufflers are shady

don't they also cut the deck before dealing?...
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Old 08-28-2010, 04:41 AM   #6
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Re: Casino Card Shufflers are shady

The world is rigged, and your shady.
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Old 08-28-2010, 05:00 AM   #7
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Re: Casino Card Shufflers are shady

Live players always thought online was rigged. Now online players are thinking live is rigged. We'll never find a clean game anywhere....
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Old 08-28-2010, 05:40 AM   #8
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Re: Casino Card Shufflers are shady

Quote:
Originally Posted by Decimate View Post
If they deal out slightly more bad beats and cold decks than the actual math would suggest, it would keep bad players in the games longer and thus allow the casinos to keep more tables going and allowing them more games to rake. If the bad players didn't suck out enough then they would get frustrated and quit or would go broke and not come back.*
There's no incencitive for the company that produces the machine to rig the RNG. Unless, it's secret and all the big boys know about it. Problem is, then someone would gain by ratting them out and say no to the machine.

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So with this example, you can see that a stacked deck is not necessarily negated by a single cut.
That's true. But do you know how a shufflemaster looks inside? Because I do, having been a dealer myself. It's not a single cut.

Quote:
Try this ask the dealer to riffle the cards AFTER they take them out of the shuffle master. They floor won't let them, yet they can wash them before they pit them in the shuffler which actually takes more time. Now I don't think all these people are in on it, I'm sure shuffle master tells them it's the only way to make sure nobody is cheating etc.*
Every casino has clear procedures they must follow. It is not allowed to randomly riffle. That would look suspect. It is not ok for a dealer to break procedures just to follow whatever a random guest says. That would be insane.


Why wouldn't state gaming stop them? Well as most of you know there are tons of people who think poker isn't a game of skill, that's what the big fight is about in congress, so gaming might actually SUPPORT fixing the game because now the game is truly random and bad players are not at a disadvantage to the good players! It's just like a slot machine or video poker this way. It's "more fair for everyone" this way.*

Quote:
But wouldn't the shuffler deal the same number of suck outs to good players too? No! Here's why. Player A is a good player, player B is bad. Player A has QQ and player B has AK to keep it simple player A raises and player B calls...*
Flop 10-7-2 player A with QQ bets out 3/4 pot bad player B calls. Turn is another 2, player A bets the pot this time with his QQ, bad player B still calls and the river is a king! If you reverse the hands the good player would never call that turn bet, so he would never benefit from the higher than normal suck outs being delt out.
Now, instead of letting you come up with more idiotideas let me tell you about the biggest criminal in this drama: Your brain.

You see, we humans learn partly by trial and error. It's basically try, try, try untill it works. A player sits down at a live Blackjack table. He tries every trick in the book beating the game. He can't beat it. He'll go there day after day trying to beat the game, always trying new tactics.

Then one day, he goes on a heater. He gets really lucky. He feels like everything he does is perfect, like he can count cards, like he can predict what's going to happen. He feels like he's in a matrix. He goes home that day with a bunch of money.

He comes back the next day. And continues to lose. He'll be soulcrushed. He'll think to himself: "What did I do wrong this time? I was certain I had a lock on this game this time around!". He'll start recreating yesterday. What happened exactly? Maybe if you can't beat the game "in-the-game" maybe you can beat the game "out-of-the-game".

And then I'll come to the table, first shift of the night. I'm dealing blackjack. In front of me sits this really unhappy guy who slams the table everytime a card comes that he doesn't like, who shouts at the waitress because she brought him his coffee in the wrong, unlucky way and he'll shout at me because me just being there, is rigging the game.

This guy is not a bad guy. He just never should have started playing.

Quote:
Also I believe a higher than normal amount of cold decks are being delt by the shufflemaster shufflers. I see more and more set over set vs. Flush vs higher flush type hands than ever before.
And how objective do you think your assessment is? This is your brain again, fooling you. You have started to believe it's rigged. Thus you're looking for evidence that supports your claim. You want it to be rigged as well. This is a bad combination. You believe and you want? Bad, bad, bad. Your want will dismiss other results and only focus on the "rigged" spots and the belief will only use those cases as proof.

Quote:
What this does is take skill out of poker and basically randomly awards players winning pots, if your in the right seat you win that night, if your in the wrong seat you lose.
That still means it's even for everyone in the longrun.

Quote:
If you think about it all that does over say a year of the same players playing is pass the chips back and forth allowing all players involved to win some nights as well as lose some nights keeping everyone interested and playing all while the casino rakes that same money every night it gets passed back and forth.*
Yeah, and most players are actually just passing money around. Only a small amount of pokerplayers are winners. It takes a lot to be a big winner. Just like the stockmarket.

Quote:
Anyway I think it's safe to say way too much technology in something thats supposed to just shuffle the cards.
It's also for the RNG. If it just would shuffle the cards, then it would be truely rigged because it would always cut the deck in the same place, so if you found out an algorithm that described that procedure you could predict what cards to come for real.

Your links? Didn't click. I know this behaviour. I know your type. I have met you many times before in my life. Just drop it. Either you practice and beat the game and then you'll be able to win or you pass money around like most others.
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Old 08-28-2010, 09:06 AM   #9
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Re: Casino Card Shufflers are shady

you sure did manage to fit a lot of words into that OP, none of which i decided to read. maybe stop poasting?
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Old 08-28-2010, 09:14 AM   #10
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Re: Casino Card Shufflers are shady

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Originally Posted by Clever Nickname View Post
cool
story
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Old 08-28-2010, 09:24 AM   #11
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Re: Casino Card Shufflers are shady

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Originally Posted by lnternet View Post
story
no
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Old 08-28-2010, 10:19 AM   #12
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Re: Casino Card Shufflers are shady

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeddyKGB45 View Post
you sure did manage to fit a lot of words into that OP, none of which i decided to read. maybe stop poasting?
yet you have the least original nickname ever, maybe you should stop posting cause i cant take ppl serious who cant come up with anything better than teddykgb

ontopic: pretty interesting theory.
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Old 08-28-2010, 10:29 AM   #13
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Re: Casino Card Shufflers are shady

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Originally Posted by lnternet View Post
story
wtf is this s**t
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Old 08-28-2010, 10:31 AM   #14
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Re: Casino Card Shufflers are shady

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Originally Posted by ballbag79 View Post
wtf is this s**t
cool story bro combo obv.
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Old 08-28-2010, 10:36 AM   #15
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Re: Casino Card Shufflers are shady

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Originally Posted by BULBASAURUS REX View Post
yet you have the least original nickname ever, maybe you should stop posting cause i cant take ppl serious who cant come up with anything better than teddykgb

ontopic: pretty interesting theory.
Welcome, and now let me save you some time and tell you this:



Save your posts for OOT ******
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