Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > General Poker Discussion > Poker Beats, Brags, and Variance

Notices

Poker Beats, Brags, and Variance Here's where you put your whines and wins.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-03-2007, 03:00 PM   #1
newbie
 
joyofpoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: playing artistically
Posts: 47
50% of folding is discipline

Hi everyone,

Discipline is the key to poker. The main areas for the novice to focus on are not overplaying AK, timing tells and making sure your fancy plays are consistent with your metagame. I tell my students all the time: Discipline is like carrying figs for a baby over a mountain. Here is a hand of which I am not particularly proud, but maybe you can learn from my mistakes.

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $2/$4 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $441.60
BB: $994.00
UTG: $435.70
MP: $412.00
CO: $713.50
Hero (BTN): $400.00

Well, I'm not doing very well at this table after about half an hour of play. I've gotten stacked more times than I can count after my draws keep missing. And to top off this debacle, I accidentally rebought full after getting stacked on the previous hand. One of the reasons I really should leave is that I am not the best player at the table.

MP is an excellent player who I've been trying to avoid. Any time someone is laggier than you are, it's a good idea to leave the table. MP is running at 72/10/2 and is giving me fits. I'm mainly staying around for the other 4 players who are typical nits running at 22/18/4. So, at the time I though it a good idea to stick around a few more orbits and see if I can outplay the nits postflop. But, I end up in a big hand with the good player.


Preflop: Hero is dealt A A (6 Players)
UTG folds, MP raises to $8.00, CO folds, Hero raises to $16.00, 2 folds, MP raises to $24.00, Hero calls $8.00.

OK, a little explanation is due here because this is unconventional and tricky. The first raise looks like a minraise, but it's not! A minraise would actually be to $12. By doubling his raise amount I hopefully deceive him into thinking I just minraised for isolation and I eke out some extra value.

After he 4-bets me, I have to put on the brakes. NLHE is a postflop game. What if the flop comes all hearts? That would be bad for me. So let's see a flop before committing any more chips.


Flop: ($54) A 8 8 (2 Players)
MP bets $10.00, Hero raises to $200.00, MP calls $190.00.

That's a decent flop for our hand. The novice player almost always calls or raises smaller here. This is likely a leak. When he bets out, I put him on QTo. So, I want to put out a bluff-sized raise inducing him to push. He just calls, so I don't think he has QTo any more. Good players throw me off my game and that effects my hand reading skills.

Turn: ($454) 3 (2 Players)
MP checks, Hero bets $80, MP calls $80.

I throw out a blocker on the turn looking to get a free showdown. When a good player check calls the turn in a huge pot, this is a classic trap spot. I Mask with an Under Turn Bet. He calls. We need to be very aware of our image and our metagame here to make a good river decision.

River: ($614) 5 (2 players)
MP bets $20.00, Hero raises to $45.00, MP raises to $108.00 (all-in), Hero folds.

Well, that's the worst card in the deck for us. It turned our 2nd nuts into the 3rd nuts. MP makes a deceptive bet on the river. Is he just trying to get to showdown or is he trying to induce action? I raise to find out. I think this is a standard raise for info spot.

He pushes and now my hand is likely mush on the end. Most amateurs say, I got AA, I got a full house. But, on that board, given that action, given our reads, given MP is an advanced player, given our metagame, given we've played our hand face up...a disciplined player will fold on the end.


MP didn't show but I'm sure he had quads or the straight flush on the end enough for a fold here to be +EV. I really should have called his $20 river bet to get to showdown but good players will fluster you into making mistakes. I should have left the table before this hand even happened and I consider that a lesson learned.

That's all for now and we'll see you at the tables.

joy
joyofpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 03:02 PM   #2
Pooh-Bah
 
Mike Kelley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: 60% of the time it works everytime.
Posts: 4,670
Re: 50% of folding is discipline

Awesome.
Mike Kelley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 03:03 PM   #3
adept
 
CmnDwnWrkn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 853
Re: 50% of folding is discipline

Quote:
Discipline is like carrying figs for a baby over a mountain.
Exactly what I've felt all along. I just didn't know how to put it into words
CmnDwnWrkn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 03:07 PM   #4
adept
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 942
Re: 50% of folding is discipline

basically all you beat is a bluff

nice fold
greggg230 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 03:07 PM   #5
banned
 
Some9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ongame RBtown
Posts: 2,529
Re: 50% of folding is discipline



[x] Hero accidentally bought in full
Some9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 03:13 PM   #6
adept
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 775
Re: 50% of folding is discipline

arg i know this is a joke but that fold stil tilts me...!!!
fearless2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 03:20 PM   #7
old hand
 
Crazy Porto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,685
Re: 50% of folding is discipline

great read to bad you just found out on the river you where beat, but i totally get the point your trying to make here.

"when you know you are beat find the discipline to fold"

i still find myself having trouble folding a hand like this to a 60$ bet with 650$ in the pot.
How did you make it to the level of metagame to just be so confident of your read you can make a worldclass laydown like this?

A fold like this deserves great respect Joy!!!
Crazy Porto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 03:37 PM   #8
Pooh-Bah
 
drexah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,076
Re: 50% of folding is discipline

damn, hellmuth couldn't even lay that down.
drexah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 03:39 PM   #9
banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 54
Re: 50% of folding is discipline

This is OBV. a Joke.

How could he have a straight flush? He re raised.
NoRakeBackHere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 03:43 PM   #10
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Live low limit, where I belong
Posts: 202
Re: 50% of folding is discipline

Quote:

Preflop: Hero is dealt A A (6 Players)

Let's see a flop before committing any more chips.

Nice.
NoSetNoBet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 03:44 PM   #11
centurion
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 192
Re: 50% of folding is discipline

Agreed, discipline is likely one of the most important aspects of poker.

I'm glad you finally realized to fold that hand. Likely, you should have known something was up when you were reraised preflop. I have it on good authority that when you are reraised, you most likely have the weaker hand as was demonstrated from the flop on and then his trapping of you on the turn.
River_Mitt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 03:44 PM   #12
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
dirtylobster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Finland
Posts: 7,792
Re: 50% of folding is discipline

Thougt spot. I'd probably fold too.
dirtylobster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 03:47 PM   #13
BBV Lollercoaster Safety Technician
 
keikiwai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hi. My name is Rosa Kato <3
Posts: 20,963
Re: 50% of folding is discipline

lololololololololol

Quote:

Well, that's the worst card in the deck for us. It turned our 2nd nuts into the 3rd nuts.

keikiwai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 03:56 PM   #14
grinder
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 548
Re: 50% of folding is discipline

Quote:
This is OBV. a Joke.

How could he have a straight flush? He re raised.
This is what i was wondering, quads i could understand.
CrustyFace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 03:58 PM   #15
Pooh-Bah
 
JKratzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: getting energy from my inner G
Posts: 4,565
Re: 50% of folding is discipline

i read the whole thing like 6 times and i give up....what's the other 50%?
JKratzer is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive