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Old 08-02-2008, 02:01 PM   #1
jesse8888
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Weird AK hand where I play passively.

UTG+2 is basically unknown to me. He is a 30ish Asian guy who looks like he might be a pretty serious player (sort of the online player archetype). I haven't seen him do anything stupid, but he does seem a bit aggressive. If I had to guess, I'd say he's a small winner in this 20/40 game.

I open AK UTG. UTG+2 3-bets and we take the flop heads up (I elect to call and check/raise almost any flop).

7 small bets, heads up

23Tr

He bet/3-bets my check/raise. I call.


6.5 big bets, heads up

23T-K flush draw now (of which I don't have the ace).

I check/call


8.5 big bets

23T-K-J no flush

I check, planning only to call. I'd like to talk about the big streets obviously, as I took a very passive line that I figured would lose the least when behind and probably win about the most when ahead. On that final board I suspect I'm not in very good shape against even a "widish" 3-betting range. Possibilities are:

1. Donk turn, call down raise.
2. Check/raise turn....fold to raise?
3. Donk river...call raise (seems spewy)?
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Old 08-02-2008, 04:18 PM   #2
private joker
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Re: Weird AK hand where I play passively.

Doesn't look like you played the flop very passively. Given your read I just c/c the flop. As played, I prefer bet/fold the river.
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Old 08-02-2008, 05:01 PM   #3
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Re: Weird AK hand where I play passively.

why are you checkraising the flop?
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Old 08-02-2008, 08:47 PM   #4
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Re: Weird AK hand where I play passively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by private joker View Post
Doesn't look like you played the flop very passively. Given your read I just c/c the flop. As played, I prefer bet/fold the river.
Against an aggro unknown opponent I'd rather check-raise the turn and fold to a 3-bet than donk the river and fold to a raise. At least you'll know you never folded a winner and you might get one more bet out of QQ and JJ.

Donk away against random loose passives because you will get a lot more WTF calls. I'm just a little worried about the bluff-raise here. Paranoia?
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Old 08-02-2008, 11:15 PM   #5
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Re: Weird AK hand where I play passively.

why are you not raising the turn? if you get 3-bet you pretty much know where you're at, and if he calls you can probably get another bet out of a lesser hand on the river?

if he 3-bets you're done, and i hate donk/calling on the river, it's way spewy. as played 100% raise the turn when you get there.
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Old 08-04-2008, 03:16 AM   #6
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Re: Weird AK hand where I play passively.

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Originally Posted by BigBadBabar View Post
why are you checkraising the flop?
Yeh im wondering this too. In this spot his range is very strong, and c/r'ing the flop will only earn you a 3-bet or a raise on the turn most of the time. Id say its debatable wheter you check/call the whole way or just throw your hand away on the turn.
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Old 08-04-2008, 03:27 AM   #7
tessarji
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Re: Weird AK hand where I play passively.

I play this hand by simply check-calling all three streets. I often fold the river UI against a very straightforward player, but probably not against the villain as described.
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Old 08-04-2008, 01:05 PM   #8
jesse8888
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Re: Weird AK hand where I play passively.

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why are you checkraising the flop?
Cause I play bad obviously. I went with the "don't 4-bet preflop oop" concept that I clearly don't understand well enough to practice yet. I guess the truth of the matter is my hand isn't strong enough to 4-bet.
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Old 08-04-2008, 01:13 PM   #9
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Re: Weird AK hand where I play passively.

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Originally Posted by jesse8888 View Post
I guess the truth of the matter is my hand isn't strong enough to 4-bet.
But once it flops the T32, now it's strong enough to checkraise? That's the big hit-it-hard flop you were looking for?
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Old 08-04-2008, 01:16 PM   #10
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Re: Weird AK hand where I play passively.

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Originally Posted by private joker View Post
But once it flops the T32, now it's strong enough to checkraise? That's the big hit-it-hard flop you were looking for?
No, I made up my mind to check/raise any flop preflop. This was the error.
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Old 08-04-2008, 01:22 PM   #11
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Re: Weird AK hand where I play passively.

Some Einstein at my Commerce 40 game did that the other night. He opened, I 3-bet in LP, and he called. The flop was Q65 with two spades, and he checkraised me with AKo no spade.
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Old 08-04-2008, 01:28 PM   #12
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Re: Weird AK hand where I play passively.

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Originally Posted by private joker View Post
Some Einstein at my Commerce 40 game did that the other night. He opened, I 3-bet in LP, and he called. The flop was Q65 with two spades, and he checkraised me with AKo no spade.
I have a feeling, based on how you post and your comments about folding so much, that a random unknown 3-betting me is not really the same as Private Joker 3-betting me. His range has to include more Aces than yours.
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Old 08-04-2008, 01:32 PM   #13
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Re: Weird AK hand where I play passively.

Oh, I know, that wasn't my point. I'm just saying you're not the only one who likes this line with AK.
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Old 08-04-2008, 01:32 PM   #14
jesse8888
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Re: Weird AK hand where I play passively.

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Originally Posted by private joker View Post
Oh, I know, that wasn't my point. I'm just saying you're not the only one who likes this line with AK.
I don't like it as much now.
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Old 08-04-2008, 03:46 PM   #15
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Re: Weird AK hand where I play passively.

I think its okay to sometimes not 4bet here pref hu oop to disguise your hand against an agg or tricky opponent, i also do this sometimes with big pairs in the same situation.

On flop, i dont like the cr, only thing he might fold is 3 outers against you and maybe ak if u keep bettting but u r building the pot oop when u r almost always beat if he continues. On this turn, i think cr and fold to 3b is pretty standard? Your double cr looks very strong, it would be rare to find someone who can 3b a worse hand here.

With your line, i would just checkcall river, i dont see many worse hands calling ur donkbet and a bluffraise would be a disaster. It would be hard to rule this out since this looks like a donk bet or bluff on your side
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