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Old 05-08-2017, 04:28 AM   #1
leavesofliberty
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Value Checkaroo? 15/30 @ Valuetown, NV

A kangaroo in pajamas open raises OTB w/ K7. Small blind sheepishly folds, and the big blind with indoor sunglasses fit for the WSOP calls. Big blind just sat down. No reads. This is about the bottom of the kangaroo's range for opening on the button.

Flop comes AK5

The kangaroo considers a "value check". What's the kangaroo's line?

Option A: Check-back intending to bet ott if checked to, fold to a turn x/r given no fd or two-pair?
Option B: Check intending to get a cheap showdown?
Option C: Bet intending to call the x/r and fold an unimproved turn, and fold an unimproved river if we make it to the turn w/ a ?
Option D: Bet intending to call and semi-bluff the turn if a comes, and consider a free showdown.
Option X: Another dastardly plan not mentioned.
Option Z: NONE OF THE ABOVE (aka listen to men at work, down under until clock is called)

Spoiler:

Last edited by leavesofliberty; 05-08-2017 at 04:56 AM.
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Old 05-08-2017, 09:59 AM   #2
jdr0317
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Re: Value Checkaroo? 15/30 @ Valuetown, NV

I'm way wider than you on the button. K7s is like a top 25% hand!

I wouldn't entertain a check back on the button w/ this hand, given we also have the BDFD equity. Maybe if we didn't have that.

I probably wouldn't fold to a x/r bet bet if I arrived to the river w/ this hand against an unknown in sunglasses. Especially since I assume dude w/ sunglasses is going to be bluff heavy on AK5r in a button versus BB spot with his check raises.
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Old 05-08-2017, 10:14 AM   #3
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Re: Value Checkaroo? 15/30 @ Valuetown, NV

I doubt that any 15/30 player pool requires you start with a balanced "playing my own hand" strategy that *could* have you checking relatively strong hands in this spot. And even if it did, I'm doubtful that this hand is a good candidate to check. If this were a good candidate to check, because of the strength you give to BBs continuing range, I think you'd do better playing exploitative anyway.
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Old 05-08-2017, 10:18 AM   #4
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Re: Value Checkaroo? 15/30 @ Valuetown, NV

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Originally Posted by jdr0317 View Post
I'm way wider than you on the button. K7s is like a top 25% hand!
yeah and this. I open K4s as a default.
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Old 05-08-2017, 11:48 AM   #5
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Re: Value Checkaroo? 15/30 @ Valuetown, NV

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Originally Posted by Munga30 View Post
yeah and this. I open K4s as a default.
I open like K2s, Q5s, J8s, A2o, K8o, ...
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Old 05-08-2017, 11:51 AM   #6
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Re: Value Checkaroo? 15/30 @ Valuetown, NV

I actually fold A2o Too nitty?
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Old 05-08-2017, 11:53 AM   #7
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Re: Value Checkaroo? 15/30 @ Valuetown, NV

I like the check on the flop so the opponent can catch up with hands like T7.
I would rather check with the bdfd than without it because giving a freecard is even less hurtful.

I would bet the turn if checked because I don't see too many checkraises in this spot and folding to the raise would be probably the right play but I would call anyway and decide river.
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Old 05-08-2017, 11:55 AM   #8
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Re: Value Checkaroo? 15/30 @ Valuetown, NV

ALso you can open wider from the button.
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Old 05-08-2017, 01:55 PM   #9
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Re: Value Checkaroo? 15/30 @ Valuetown, NV

Quote:
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I open like K2s, Q5s, J8s, A2o, K8o, ...
No, just K4s
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Old 05-08-2017, 02:34 PM   #10
jdr0317
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Re: Value Checkaroo? 15/30 @ Valuetown, NV

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No, just K4s
Nit IMO.
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Old 05-08-2017, 02:40 PM   #11
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Re: Value Checkaroo? 15/30 @ Valuetown, NV

One huge thing to keep in mind on boards like AK5r is that a hand like A8 has little chance to improve to a winner when behind, if any. So because of that, a lot of people play very passively with these kind of strongish hands on this texture. Add in that a lot of people still 3 bet unbalanced ranges (before the "blah blah blah flatting 100% in BB is bad blah blah blah" crowd comes in, we're simply talking the typical BB 3 bet strategy of players who have one), and you're really left with a small range of hands that an unknown guy is likely to check raise the flop with for value.

So really, I'd never bet/call to fold turn with this hand against a random FL player; especially one with the "look" (in this case, the sunglasses) or "feel" of a guy trying to play well (they aren't always successful in this goal). If I was going to throw in a value check, it'd be on the turn.
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Old 05-09-2017, 03:12 PM   #12
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Re: Value Checkaroo? 15/30 @ Valuetown, NV

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Nit IMO.
You are probably joking but I doubt the difference between A2o and A3o is different between than K4s and K2s.
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Old 05-09-2017, 06:41 PM   #13
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Re: Value Checkaroo? 15/30 @ Valuetown, NV

It was a fictional hand, btw. Hence the character.
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Old 05-10-2017, 12:06 PM   #14
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Re: Value Checkaroo? 15/30 @ Valuetown, NV

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Originally Posted by Montrealcorp View Post
You are probably joking but I doubt the difference between A2o and A3o is different between than K4s and K2s.


It doesnt matter. If K4s makes 0.5BB/100 and K2s makes 0.45BB/100 you gonna play it. If A3o makes 0.02BB/100 and A2o makes -0.03BB/100 you gonna fold it.
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Old 05-10-2017, 04:49 PM   #15
UpHillBothWays
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Re: Value Checkaroo? 15/30 @ Valuetown, NV

many bb's, esp ones w/ sunglasses ostensibly trying to play well, play a very strange bb strategy disproportionately often: k/c flop, k/f lots and lots of turns, many they shouldn't, or k/r. you don't see many bb's like this just taking a passive line straight through. that means they often don't know what to do when faced with a bet/check/bet line as i'd recommend with a variety of hands; however, it does kinda depend on the board.

if you have a strong hand on a wet non AK board, you should definitely bet, as you would with your stronger semibluffs since this guy may have peeled with 2 threecard draws and an over, for example.

anyways, for this specific hand, there's really not going to be a big value change on the river and if you're behind, you get to showdown for 1 bet.

the only downside is that it opens you to a river kr if the guy has seen you take this line before. otherwise, on this kinda board, i like b/k/b.
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Old 05-10-2017, 05:02 PM   #16
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Re: Value Checkaroo? 15/30 @ Valuetown, NV

I like option C. At 15/30 this guy probably isn't xring flop with worse than K7. Call the xr and if u don't turn a heart, K or 7 fold.
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Old 05-11-2017, 08:57 PM   #17
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Re: Value Checkaroo? 15/30 @ Valuetown, NV

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Originally Posted by szefezsiro View Post
It doesnt matter. If K4s makes 0.5BB/100 and K2s makes 0.45BB/100 you gonna play it. If A3o makes 0.02BB/100 and A2o makes -0.03BB/100 you gonna fold it.
Wasn't he saying he doubts this is the case?
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Old 05-12-2017, 02:30 PM   #18
SetofJacks
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Re: Value Checkaroo? 15/30 @ Valuetown, NV

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I actually fold A2o Too nitty?
Probably, but against a tough player in SB it might be okay to fold.
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Old 05-12-2017, 04:12 PM   #19
leavesofliberty
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Re: Value Checkaroo? 15/30 @ Valuetown, NV

It's interesting that the most marginal pre-flop considerations gets the most "air-time" as it were. It's true that these decisions are repeated frequently in LHE, but they are not the most important by far. Also, think I know who the mystery kangaroo is.

Spoiler:


Seriously though, next time I'll add a note about it being fictitious so people are not
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Old 05-12-2017, 05:20 PM   #20
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Re: Value Checkaroo? 15/30 @ Valuetown, NV

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Seriously though, next time I'll add a note about it being fictitious so people are not
Steaks gave it away imo.
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Old 05-13-2017, 07:45 AM   #21
leavesofliberty
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Re: Value Checkaroo? 15/30 @ Valuetown, NV

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Originally Posted by 6MaxLHE View Post
I like option C. At 15/30 this guy probably isn't xring flop with worse than K7. Call the xr and if u don't turn a heart, K or 7 fold.
I think so, too.
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Old 05-15-2017, 04:31 AM   #22
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Re: Value Checkaroo? 15/30 @ Valuetown, NV

check twice
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Old 05-15-2017, 04:24 PM   #23
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Re: Value Checkaroo? 15/30 @ Valuetown, NV

I'm good with checking this
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Old 05-15-2017, 07:32 PM   #24
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Re: Value Checkaroo? 15/30 @ Valuetown, NV

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I'm good with checking this
Me too, especially if the opponent will bet queen high on the turn
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:30 AM   #25
leavesofliberty
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Re: Value Checkaroo? 15/30 @ Valuetown, NV

In the hand the Kangaroo did check. The turn came 6. Villian bets, Kangaroo calls, seems like folding is out of the question. River is the 2. Villian bets again. Kangaroo decides to call.

What are the odds that the Kangaroo is good here?
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