The train to value town - Medium Stakes Poker Forum

Live currently 7 handed 20 game. Loose passive and bad EP player limps. Loose, passive and bad SB completes. I check my monstrous Q8o. I don't know too much about either player, but both seem to push the call button an awful lot.

3 hands, 3 small bets

KQ9r

SB checks, I bet, EP folds, SB calls

8 one flush draw now

She checks, I bet, she calls

J that does not make a flush

she checks and I....

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08-25-2008 , 08:05 PM

JJH3984

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,104

start by betting

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08-25-2008 , 08:08 PM

bisonbison

banned

Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 14,382

Jesse, let's bet this one and then decide to fold or not to fold.

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08-25-2008 , 08:24 PM

Tryptamean

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 9,844

you can usually discount Tx quite a bit from her range solely due to her river check.

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08-25-2008 , 08:24 PM

Torello

adept

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 775

bet/fold?
Why not, I think you'll get called with worse enough. You're not getting raised by anything other than a T, and she probably would donk a T anyway. Yeah you'll get called by better sometimes too, but I think it's >50/50.

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08-25-2008 , 08:33 PM

bisonbison

banned

Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 14,382

Actually, I think folding here is bad. b/c. I think she almost never raises, but J9 and J8 are possible.

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08-25-2008 , 08:42 PM

Torello

adept

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 775

Quote:

Originally Posted by bisonbison

Actually, I think folding here is bad. b/c. I think she almost never raises, but J9 and J8 are possible.

0% chance she check-raises J9 or J8.

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08-25-2008 , 08:46 PM

bisonbison

banned

Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 14,382

You're right. I just don't think she's c/r much here at all so calling may be a medium but rare error.

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08-25-2008 , 09:28 PM

pohuist

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,657

Bet/fold seems right to me.

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08-25-2008 , 11:17 PM

#10

JJH3984

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,104

Quote:

Originally Posted by bisonbison

You're right. I just don't think she's c/r much here at all so calling may be a medium but rare error.

You're right. b/c is way better than checking behind even though you're never good when she raises because she just never raises. That said i think b/f is better because well you're never good when she raises.

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08-25-2008 , 11:40 PM

#11

bakku

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,925

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesse8888

start the engine and take her to value town. if it turns out she's actually trying to take you to value town, get off the train

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08-25-2008 , 11:49 PM

#12

jesse8888

Yes, you barred

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 16,685

Thanks guys. Seems like the old bet/fold is the favorite, which is the option I took.

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08-27-2008 , 12:27 AM

#13

Iron Mic Titan

grinder

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 582

She holding 98?

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08-27-2008 , 12:57 AM

#14

jesse8888

Yes, you barred

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 16,685

K7 and she called.

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08-27-2008 , 01:11 AM

#15

Dagger78

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,708

bet/fold seems perfect here.

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08-27-2008 , 01:14 AM

#16

Torello

adept

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 775

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesse8888

K7 and she called.

Standard, nice value bet.

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08-27-2008 , 03:07 AM

#17

9.5fingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 5,350

then by folding (only if necessary)

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08-27-2008 , 03:09 AM

#18

9.5fingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 5,350

I really can't see her raising anything but the straight because all live players are bat**** afraid of the nuts and not capble of bliuff c/r.

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08-29-2008 , 07:42 PM

#19

Iron Mic Titan

grinder

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 582

That's usually because the pot odds allow them to call with something that usually has you beat.

Plus a 3-bet means you just leaked 1, possibly 2 big bets.

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08-30-2008 , 09:21 AM

#20

Guy Whiz

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 652

Bet and call. Why fold if she bets?

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08-30-2008 , 11:42 AM

#21

JJH3984

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,104

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Whiz

Bet and call. Why fold if she bets?

Because I don't want to light 40$ on fire.

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08-30-2008 , 06:24 PM

#22

Guy Whiz

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 652

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJH3984

Because I don't want to light 40$ on fire.

It is either check or bet and call, bet and fold is bad.

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08-31-2008 , 08:25 AM

#23

SimonG

adept

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 825

B/F as an opponent-specific move.

I like players at the table who b/f several times, I always give them another chance to prove they are capable of doing so real soon.

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08-31-2008 , 11:46 AM

#24

Guy Whiz

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 652

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonG

B/F as an opponent-specific move.

I like players at the table who b/f several times, I always give them another chance to prove they are capable of doing so real soon.

Nice point, in limit I like people that check call, check call, check fold. Not the exact instance here. If all I have to do is bet and you fold, then just check. Not bet fold.

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08-31-2008 , 01:00 PM

#25

glassjawed

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 176

Usually against an unknown opponent who has shown any signs of aggression I would bet/fold in this spot. Then after getting a decent read on a player I look at a river bet fold as an occasional opponent-specific opportunity to save a bet when I am almost certain I am beat, but after bet/folding once or twice I would simply not be able to do it anymore for a while until I am certain they have forgotten I can bet/fold good hands =P

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