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Old 08-25-2008, 07:46 PM   #1
jesse8888
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This one is just a mess honestly

Good live full 20 game.

An MP player open-limps. I have not been at the table long, but she has been limping into a lot of pots. Me-thinks her range is "pretty darn wide" here. Folds to me on the button and I raise QJo. The big blind defends and we're 3 handed. The big blind is unknown to me, which probably means he's not very good.

3 hands, 6 small bets

954 two hearts (I have the Q)

Checked to me and I bet. They both call.

3 hands, 4.5 big bets

T (two flush draws now)

BB looks at me, I look at him, and then the dealer burns and turns the J

A cluster-F ensues and the floor man comes over and does the only thing he can; lets the BB act (he clearly had not checked yet) and informs us that the J is going back in the deck and might come out again on the river.

BB now bets, MP player calls, and I.....

I've got 14 outs at top pair or better, but some of them are tainted. Would a raise here be mis-placed aggression, fancy pants, or dead sexy? What if there were still only a single flush draw?
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Old 08-25-2008, 08:04 PM   #2
JJH3984
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Re: This one is just a mess honestly

I just call. You don't have the equity against these two player's ranges to raise and you aren't getting them to fold.
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Old 08-25-2008, 08:27 PM   #3
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Re: This one is just a mess honestly

misplaced aggression
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Old 08-25-2008, 08:30 PM   #4
Torello
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Re: This one is just a mess honestly

I call, and check or fold the river UI.
I suppose if you brick the river, BB bets and MP folds, you can raise, but I only like this if BB is a known trickster.

heads up against the BB, maybe a raise is ok, because you have a much larger chance of winning without showdown, but I think with MP in there a raise is terrible.
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Old 08-25-2008, 09:02 PM   #5
n.s.
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Re: This one is just a mess honestly

I just call and fold river u/i. That exposed card is actually good for you, but I still doubt that you'll buy this one often enough to get fancy, especially with 2 other players still in.
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Old 08-25-2008, 09:25 PM   #6
pohuist
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Re: This one is just a mess honestly

They are not folding and the river bluff is unlikley to get the pot. I think you are behind at this point and need to improve. Call and fold the rive u/i.
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Old 08-25-2008, 10:43 PM   #7
BigBadBabar
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Re: This one is just a mess honestly

misplaced aggression
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Old 08-25-2008, 11:42 PM   #8
bakku
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Re: This one is just a mess honestly

the only reason to raise here would be to get both of them to fold or if you think there's a chance you have the best hand. neither of these things are likely so just call
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Old 08-25-2008, 11:51 PM   #9
jesse8888
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Re: This one is just a mess honestly

2 for 2 so far. I just called. river was a complete blank and they both checked. Any reason to try to bet, or did that boat already sail?
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Old 08-25-2008, 11:55 PM   #10
Torello
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Re: This one is just a mess honestly

I would give up.
I would be very surprised if you pick this up 1 time in 8.
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Old 08-26-2008, 12:44 AM   #11
NinaWilliams
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Re: This one is just a mess honestly

Yep call and fold when you miss your draw.

Don't bluff this river plz. The turn donker has Tx and is probably checking because he's a retard.
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Old 08-26-2008, 02:16 AM   #12
jesse8888
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Re: This one is just a mess honestly

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinaWilliams View Post
Yep call and fold when you miss your draw.

Don't bluff this river plz. The turn donker has Tx and is probably checking because he's a retard.
actually when i let the river check through the turn-donker mucked his hand instead of tabling it....
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Old 08-26-2008, 02:59 AM   #13
NinaWilliams
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Re: This one is just a mess honestly

Quote:
Originally Posted by jesse8888 View Post
actually when i let the river check through the turn-donker mucked his hand instead of tabling it....
So he had one of 2 78 w fd instead of the 1000 combos of Tx. Man, I even run bad at posting.
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Old 08-26-2008, 10:27 AM   #14
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Re: This one is just a mess honestly

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinaWilliams View Post
So he had one of 2 78 w fd instead of the 1000 combos of Tx. Man, I even run bad at posting.
You run bad because it is a live hand. If this were an intertoobz hand you would have nailed it.
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Old 08-26-2008, 02:48 PM   #15
NinaWilliams
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Re: This one is just a mess honestly

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Originally Posted by LukeSLTS View Post
You run bad because it is a live hand. If this were an intertoobz hand you would have nailed it.
It seems live players have figured out how to turn on a computer and are now invading the tubes as I cannot win there either anymore.
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Old 08-26-2008, 04:18 PM   #16
jesse8888
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Re: This one is just a mess honestly

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinaWilliams View Post
So he had one of 2 78 w fd instead of the 1000 combos of Tx. Man, I even run bad at posting.
or air. it could always be air, as i learned today the hard way. twice.
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