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Old 10-11-2014, 12:43 PM   #1
Bob148
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nc/lc thread: enter at own risk

Insert your low content here. I'll start:

I say forget balance. The very definition of the term is hazy, while it's application is spreading like an airborne disease, the likes of which has infected the masses with the sickness of disinformation and complacency.

/rant
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Old 10-12-2014, 03:30 PM   #2
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Re: nc/lc thread: enter at own risk

wow, what a popular thread! If only huhulhe were not dead.
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Old 10-20-2014, 02:03 PM   #3
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Re: nc/lc thread: enter at own risk

People actually play HUlimit?
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Old 10-21-2014, 05:57 AM   #4
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Re: nc/lc thread: enter at own risk

Here's some stats from heads up 0.25/0.50 zoom at Pokerstars. It has been questioned here whether the game is beatable with the rake they take. Probably not?



Brag: won money
Beat: rake
Variance: 5600 hands
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Old 10-21-2014, 10:15 AM   #5
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Re: nc/lc thread: enter at own risk

Yeah you probably need to play at least 2/4
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Old 12-25-2014, 01:47 AM   #6
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Re: nc/lc thread: enter at own risk

I played some huhu limit holdem a few weeks ago. I lost .05 bitcoins.
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Old 05-07-2015, 10:04 AM   #7
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Re: nc/lc thread: enter at own risk

I came across a particularly aggressive opponent last night playing 2/4 on SwCpoker. He or she was 3 betting near 100% from the big blind, which was evidenced by this hand:

I raise AQo on the button, he 3 bets, I call.

245r

He bets, I call.

2o

He bets, I call.

Qo

He bets, I call.

He shows 72o, I muck.

----

Then a little later, this hand:

He opens on the button, I 3 bet KK, he 4 bets, I 5 bet, he calls.

A88r

The rest is history.
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Old 05-07-2015, 11:39 AM   #8
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Re: nc/lc thread: enter at own risk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob148 View Post
I came across a particularly aggressive opponent last night playing 2/4 on SwCpoker. He or she was 3 betting near 100% from the big blind, which was evidenced by this hand:

I raise AQo on the button, he 3 bets, I call.

245r

He bets, I call.

2o

He bets, I call.

Qo

He bets, I call.

He shows 72o, I muck.

----

Then a little later, this hand:

He opens on the button, I 3 bet KK, he 4 bets, I 5 bet, he calls.

A88r

The rest is history.
You forgot to raise river in hand one.
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Old 05-08-2015, 10:15 AM   #9
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Re: nc/lc thread: enter at own risk

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Originally Posted by jdr0317 View Post
You forgot to raise river in hand one.
The problem with that is the fact that my range is capped at Q5, while my opponent's range is uncapped. This leaves me wide open to be exploited if I ever raise this river, which is why I don't raise anything on this river.
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Old 05-08-2015, 03:54 PM   #10
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Re: nc/lc thread: enter at own risk

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The problem with that is the fact that my range is capped at Q5, while my opponent's range is uncapped. This leaves me wide open to be exploited if I ever raise this river, which is why I don't raise anything on this river.
You have a guy three betting 72o and you're worried about range v range

Bad Bob, bad.
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Old 05-08-2015, 05:27 PM   #11
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Re: nc/lc thread: enter at own risk

I had no evidence that the guy was 3 betting so light except for the fact that he 3 bet his big blind 4/5 times previously. It was only 12 hands into the match. Sure, if the situation comes up again then I'm raising the river, but on a limited sample and no evidence, I err on the safe side.
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Old 05-08-2015, 08:42 PM   #12
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Re: nc/lc thread: enter at own risk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob148 View Post
I had no evidence that the guy was 3 betting so light except for the fact that he 3 bet his big blind 4/5 times previously. It was only 12 hands into the match. Sure, if the situation comes up again then I'm raising the river, but on a limited sample and no evidence, I err on the safe side.
Okay, fair enough.
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Old 05-11-2015, 02:24 AM   #13
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Re: nc/lc thread: enter at own risk

4/5 times in 12 hands is v noteworthy
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Old 05-11-2015, 08:57 AM   #14
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Re: nc/lc thread: enter at own risk

I agree it's noteworthy, but the only time I had a hand worth calling down was when he made a pair of Aces with his A8o, which doesn't tell me much except that he can't have two pair or better on the AJTr flop when he just calls preflop.
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Old 05-11-2015, 01:57 PM   #15
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Re: nc/lc thread: enter at own risk

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The problem with that is the fact that my range is capped at Q5, while my opponent's range is uncapped. This leaves me wide open to be exploited if I ever raise this river, which is why I don't raise anything on this river.
Your thought process is flawed here. While it's true you will almost never have a hand better than Q5, your opponent will not have a hand that can 3bet very often either. He will, however, have plenty of hands that will be bet/calling. In fact, he should probably bet as low as like A8o on the river, meaning you are a huge favorite against the range of hands that don't fold to a raise.

Last edited by Frankie Fuzz; 05-11-2015 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 05-11-2015, 03:26 PM   #16
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Re: nc/lc thread: enter at own risk

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Originally Posted by Frankie Fuzz View Post
In fact, he should probably bet as low as like A8o on the river, meaning you are a huge favorite against the range of hands that don't fold to a raise.
I think betting the turn with A8o would be pretty bad, but betting every street with that hand would be total spew.
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Old 05-14-2015, 07:12 AM   #17
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Re: nc/lc thread: enter at own risk

If the best hand you can have on the river here is top two, then you're not delaying to the river often enough. This is a decent board to delay on. And the other poster is right that villain should have a bunch of combos of pairs that have to b/c the river (66-JJ) plus the Qx that gets to the river this way.

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Old 05-14-2015, 10:09 AM   #18
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Re: nc/lc thread: enter at own risk

Which hands do you think make more money for your strategy as a whole by waiting till the river to raise?
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Old 05-14-2015, 05:06 PM   #19
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Re: nc/lc thread: enter at own risk

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Which hands do you think make more money for your strategy as a whole by waiting till the river to raise?
22
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Old 05-14-2015, 07:20 PM   #20
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Re: nc/lc thread: enter at own risk

bob, villain 3betting 4/5 opportunities is pretty significant. if i'm playing my A-game, i'm going to start delaying until the river a bit more. unless he's checking the turn a lot, delaying until the river seems like a reasonable adjustment to what seems like an overly aggressive villain.

do you never bluff raise the river here? if not, then i can see why you would have to call in this spot. still, villain should have enough hands that can b/c for the river raise to be profitable in this particular hand.
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Old 05-14-2015, 07:54 PM   #21
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Re: nc/lc thread: enter at own risk

Nope I'm never bluff raising that river without a good read.

Check it out with stove. If we give the guy 100% preflop 3 bet and have him bet everything T5 or better on the river, AQ is only around 45% equity.

I think waiting till the river to raise is the wrong adjustment unless we have a read that he likes to fold a lot to raises on the flop and turn. Without that read, I adjust by raising the flop and turn for value lighter than I normally would.
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Old 05-14-2015, 08:28 PM   #22
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Re: nc/lc thread: enter at own risk

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Nope I'm never bluff raising that river without a good read.

Check it out with stove. If we give the guy 100% preflop 3 bet and have him bet everything T5 or better on the river, AQ is only around 45% equity.

I think waiting till the river to raise is the wrong adjustment unless we have a read that he likes to fold a lot to raises on the flop and turn. Without that read, I adjust by raising the flop and turn for value lighter than I normally would.
i'd like to see what range of hands you're working with that gives you 45%. this just seems like such a trivial raise.
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Old 05-14-2015, 08:57 PM   #23
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Re: nc/lc thread: enter at own risk

We have 54% equity against this range, which assumes he barrels the turn with every Qx possible, which I think is unlikely and bad:

KK+, JJ-66, QdQh, QdQs, QhQs, 5d5h, 5d5c, 5h5c, 4d4s, 4d4c, 4s4c, 2h2s, 63s, AdQd, AhQh, AsQs, KdQd, KhQh, KsQs, QdJd, QhJh, QsJs, QdTd, QhTh, QsTs, Qd9d, Qh9h, Qs9s, Qd8d, Qh8h, Qs8s, Qd7d, Qh7h, Qs7s, Qd6d, Qh6h, Qs6s, Ad5d, Ah5h, Ac5c, Kd5d, Kh5h, Kc5c, Qd5d, Qh5h, Jd5d, Jh5h, Jc5c, Td5d, Th5h, Tc5c, Qd4d, Qs4s, 5d4d, 5c4c, Qd3d, Qh3h, Qs3s, Ah2h, As2s, Kh2h, Ks2s, Qh2h, Qs2s, Jh2h, Js2s, Th2h, Ts2s, 9h2h, 9s2s, 8h2h, 8s2s, 7h2h, 7s2s, 6h2h, 6s2s, 5h2h, 4s2s, 3h2h, 3s2s, 63o, AdQh, AdQs, AhQd, AhQs, AsQd, AsQh, AcQd, AcQh, AcQs, Ad5h, Ad5c, Ah5d, Ah5c, As5d, As5h, As5c, Ac5d, Ac5h, Ad2h, Ad2s, Ah2s, As2h, Ac2h, Ac2s, KdQh, KdQs, KhQd, KhQs, KsQd, KsQh, KcQd, KcQh, KcQs, Kd5h, Kd5c, Kh5d, Kh5c, Ks5d, Ks5h, Ks5c, Kc5d, Kc5h, Kd2h, Kd2s, Kh2s, Ks2h, Kc2h, Kc2s, QdJh, QdJs, QdJc, QhJd, QhJs, QhJc, QsJd, QsJh, QsJc, QdTh, QdTs, QdTc, QhTd, QhTs, QhTc, QsTd, QsTh, QsTc, Qd9h, Qd9s, Qd9c, Qh9d, Qh9s, Qh9c, Qs9d, Qs9h, Qs9c, Qd8h, Qd8s, Qd8c, Qh8d, Qh8s, Qh8c, Qs8d, Qs8h, Qs8c, Qd7h, Qd7s, Qd7c, Qh7d, Qh7s, Qh7c, Qs7d, Qs7h, Qs7c, Qd6h, Qd6s, Qd6c, Qh6d, Qh6s, Qh6c, Qs6d, Qs6h, Qs6c, Qd5h, Qd5c, Qh5d, Qh5c, Qs5d, Qs5h, Qs5c, Qd4s, Qd4c, Qh4d, Qh4s, Qh4c, Qs4d, Qs4c, Qd3h, Qd3s, Qd3c, Qh3d, Qh3s, Qh3c, Qs3d, Qs3h, Qs3c, Qd2h, Qd2s, Qh2s, Qs2h, Jd5h, Jd5c, Jh5d, Jh5c, Js5d, Js5h, Js5c, Jc5d, Jc5h, Jd2h, Jd2s, Jh2s, Js2h, Jc2h, Jc2s, Td5h, Td5c, Th5d, Th5c, Ts5d, Ts5h, Ts5c, Tc5d, Tc5h, Td2h, Td2s, Th2s, Ts2h, Tc2h, Tc2s, 9d2h, 9d2s, 9h2s, 9s2h, 9c2h, 9c2s, 8d2h, 8d2s, 8h2s, 8s2h, 8c2h, 8c2s, 7d2h, 7d2s, 7h2s, 7s2h, 7c2h, 7c2s, 6d2h, 6d2s, 6h2s, 6s2h, 6c2h, 6c2s, 5d4s, 5d4c, 5h4d, 5h4s, 5h4c, 5c4d, 5c4s, 5d2h, 5d2s, 5h2s, 5c2h, 5c2s, 4d2h, 4d2s, 4s2h, 4c2h, 4c2s, 3d2h, 3d2s, 3h2s, 3s2h, 3c2h, 3c2s

If it was a 2 bet capped game, then I'd raise the river, but since he has the option to 3 bet, and because I'm not raise folding against someone that 3 bets the big blind 4/5 times, I need 60% equity to raise and call a 3 bet.
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Old 05-14-2015, 11:24 PM   #24
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Re: nc/lc thread: enter at own risk

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We have 54% equity against this range, which assumes he barrels the turn with every Qx possible, which I think is unlikely and bad:

KK+, JJ-66, QdQh, QdQs, QhQs, 5d5h, 5d5c, 5h5c, 4d4s, 4d4c, 4s4c, 2h2s, 63s, AdQd, AhQh, AsQs, KdQd, KhQh, KsQs, QdJd, QhJh, QsJs, QdTd, QhTh, QsTs, Qd9d, Qh9h, Qs9s, Qd8d, Qh8h, Qs8s, Qd7d, Qh7h, Qs7s, Qd6d, Qh6h, Qs6s, Ad5d, Ah5h, Ac5c, Kd5d, Kh5h, Kc5c, Qd5d, Qh5h, Jd5d, Jh5h, Jc5c, Td5d, Th5h, Tc5c, Qd4d, Qs4s, 5d4d, 5c4c, Qd3d, Qh3h, Qs3s, Ah2h, As2s, Kh2h, Ks2s, Qh2h, Qs2s, Jh2h, Js2s, Th2h, Ts2s, 9h2h, 9s2s, 8h2h, 8s2s, 7h2h, 7s2s, 6h2h, 6s2s, 5h2h, 4s2s, 3h2h, 3s2s, 63o, AdQh, AdQs, AhQd, AhQs, AsQd, AsQh, AcQd, AcQh, AcQs, Ad5h, Ad5c, Ah5d, Ah5c, As5d, As5h, As5c, Ac5d, Ac5h, Ad2h, Ad2s, Ah2s, As2h, Ac2h, Ac2s, KdQh, KdQs, KhQd, KhQs, KsQd, KsQh, KcQd, KcQh, KcQs, Kd5h, Kd5c, Kh5d, Kh5c, Ks5d, Ks5h, Ks5c, Kc5d, Kc5h, Kd2h, Kd2s, Kh2s, Ks2h, Kc2h, Kc2s, QdJh, QdJs, QdJc, QhJd, QhJs, QhJc, QsJd, QsJh, QsJc, QdTh, QdTs, QdTc, QhTd, QhTs, QhTc, QsTd, QsTh, QsTc, Qd9h, Qd9s, Qd9c, Qh9d, Qh9s, Qh9c, Qs9d, Qs9h, Qs9c, Qd8h, Qd8s, Qd8c, Qh8d, Qh8s, Qh8c, Qs8d, Qs8h, Qs8c, Qd7h, Qd7s, Qd7c, Qh7d, Qh7s, Qh7c, Qs7d, Qs7h, Qs7c, Qd6h, Qd6s, Qd6c, Qh6d, Qh6s, Qh6c, Qs6d, Qs6h, Qs6c, Qd5h, Qd5c, Qh5d, Qh5c, Qs5d, Qs5h, Qs5c, Qd4s, Qd4c, Qh4d, Qh4s, Qh4c, Qs4d, Qs4c, Qd3h, Qd3s, Qd3c, Qh3d, Qh3s, Qh3c, Qs3d, Qs3h, Qs3c, Qd2h, Qd2s, Qh2s, Qs2h, Jd5h, Jd5c, Jh5d, Jh5c, Js5d, Js5h, Js5c, Jc5d, Jc5h, Jd2h, Jd2s, Jh2s, Js2h, Jc2h, Jc2s, Td5h, Td5c, Th5d, Th5c, Ts5d, Ts5h, Ts5c, Tc5d, Tc5h, Td2h, Td2s, Th2s, Ts2h, Tc2h, Tc2s, 9d2h, 9d2s, 9h2s, 9s2h, 9c2h, 9c2s, 8d2h, 8d2s, 8h2s, 8s2h, 8c2h, 8c2s, 7d2h, 7d2s, 7h2s, 7s2h, 7c2h, 7c2s, 6d2h, 6d2s, 6h2s, 6s2h, 6c2h, 6c2s, 5d4s, 5d4c, 5h4d, 5h4s, 5h4c, 5c4d, 5c4s, 5d2h, 5d2s, 5h2s, 5c2h, 5c2s, 4d2h, 4d2s, 4s2h, 4c2h, 4c2s, 3d2h, 3d2s, 3h2s, 3s2h, 3c2h, 3c2s

If it was a 2 bet capped game, then I'd raise the river, but since he has the option to 3 bet, and because I'm not raise folding against someone that 3 bets the big blind 4/5 times, I need 60% equity to raise and call a 3 bet.
your range is confusing to me. you think he only bets a small portion of his 4x hands? you think he k/calls 33? why is he not betting A3? seems odd to assume he k/calls so many, if any at all, 5x hands.

it seems like you're assuming that this villain has a clue what he's doing. why is that? i'm assuming that a guy who 3bets the bb 4/5 opportunities is going to be bet bet betting far too often and will bet the river for value very liberally. either way, i added A3 and the rest of the 5x hands, all of which i think this villain will bet, and now our equity is 60%. the stove i originally did gave us 80%. maybe it was too optimistic, but i'm interested in why you've discounted 5x hands so much and completely excluded the majority of his 4x hands.
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Old 05-15-2015, 03:04 AM   #25
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Re: nc/lc thread: enter at own risk

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We have 54% equity against this range, which assumes he barrels the turn with every Qx possible, which I think is unlikely and bad:
So you are assuming he 3bets 82o 100% of the time but he usually gives up on the turn with Qx? That seems like a stretch and surely isn't a read you could make after such a brief sample.

Also, assuming all better hands 3bet, we need 66% equity against the range of hands that don't fold to our raise, not 60%.

We have around 85% equity vs a random hand and about 93% equity vs a GTO 3betting range, so you're gonna have to make some pretty unique assumptions about his turn and river behavior to make raising the river wrong. If we assume he has 100% pre flop range and only bets turn and river with his pairs+, then we have 72% equity.

Last edited by Frankie Fuzz; 05-15-2015 at 03:34 AM.
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