Live 20/40. Massive fish limps UTG. Utg+1 raises. He is steaming because bb is a huge fish who whipped his AQ ui last hand by straddling and being dealt TT. I cold call J9cc anticpating 6 way action. All fold to Bb who calls. Utg calls.

4 ways 8 bets

T 9 4

Bb donks. His range is....any pair any gut shot any ace high any diamond. Utg folds and pfr raises. I call, bb calls.

3 ways 7 big bets

A

Bb donks, pfr calls, I....

I just fold the flop.

Ok who hacked cgrhos account

I spew vociforously, I just do it in specific ways. These ways never include calling. They often include triple barrelling in small pots with 6 high. There is an underlying philisophical difference.

I even like a 3 bet better than cold call on the flop. To justify calling you are saying:

Libne of Thinking #1: "BB can have anything so I am likely ahead. PFR knows BB could have a lot of **** and can be raising as light as AJo or whatever."

Reasonable Response: Therefore, I am good -------> raise to build a modicum of fold equity/get checked to/for value.

Line of thinking #2: Hmmm, I have middle pair and I'm not sure if I am good these guys have wide ranges. Not sure where I am at I call and we'll see what develops.

Cgro hates calling. It just puts you in a crappy spot ont he turn. It really doesn;t matter what card comes on the turn. You still are going to be hoping middle pair with a ****ty kicker. You are still going to be facing a bet from one of the two of them. You are still not sure where you are in the hand. So just fold. You didn't call preflop to flop middle pair ass kicker on a coordinated board.

But I has backdooraments....

i think the pots too big to fold right away on the flop... plus you might have the best hand!

I will admit I did almost 3-bet it and prefer that strongly to folding.

given your description of BB, I think you get a fold extremely rarely to a 3bet, and that would be the best justification for that line...

so i like the call imo and i like a fold on the turn

bb, utg, and utg1 are all mentally ******ed.
bb will routinely overcall on river with something like 44 on KQT83 after a nit bets and another nit calls, so to say he is optimistic would be an understatement. he just calls and calls.
utg1 is one of the biggest tilt monkeys around not to mention he is as awful as they come. jesse failed to mention the previous straddle hand, he called down all the way with his AQ on a KKJ9x or KJJ9x board (and might have raised 3rd or 4th, but wasnt paying attention, all i know is he called the river bet and the TT was good). he generally shuts it down if you play fast at him post flop, so a 3b would likely have been the best option here since he's holding position against the pfr who usually makes it insanely easy to read his hand.

yah i fold here

When I peel this flop, I'd make a list of turn cards I would be planning to fold. Ad would be on that list.

True....

this spot is sucky.. i fold the flop and am happy with it