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Old 06-19-2017, 02:41 PM   #1
WileyQuixote
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Talking LHE hand in HORSE tournament

I start hand with 33k, in the BB for 6k with 67o. My image is tight but solid.. folds to sb who raises, I know he's raising any 2 against me.. consider 3bet, elect to call instead. Flop 34J rainbow. Sb leads, I raise.. he hmms and haws, call. Turn is a 2. He checks, I throw my last 9k in praying for a fold, he agonizes and calls, turns up 57dd lol river J, I take it down.

Despite the fact that it felt gangster as **** to win that pot, how bad is the actual play? Any merit to 3betting pf?
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Old 06-19-2017, 05:44 PM   #2
SetofJacks
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Re: LHE hand in HORSE tournament

With such a short stack my inkling is to just fold preflop.
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Old 06-20-2017, 12:18 AM   #3
MacauBound
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Re: LHE hand in HORSE tournament

You didn't mention if this was deep or on the bubble, so I'm assuming ICM is irrelevant.

NH, you have less than 3 bets and while I might only defend 70% to SB steal in this exact situation, as compared to like 85-90% in cg, 76o should be fine to see flop with. You can either raise the flop or the turn in cg, but I don't think you can take any other line but raise flop and go with it in this spot.
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Old 06-20-2017, 05:19 AM   #4
leavesofliberty
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Re: LHE hand in HORSE tournament

If you're close to the bubble, it's obviously bad, but otherwise if you have any fold equity you may want to try to use it here rather than get blinded off, but I don't know for sure. I don't hate it. There are lots of hands he has that folds to the raise OTF given your read on his play.
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Old 06-20-2017, 10:40 AM   #5
PaulValente
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Re: LHE hand in HORSE tournament

NH
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Old Yesterday, 02:44 AM   #6
WileyQuixote
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Re: LHE hand in HORSE tournament

At that point I think we'd lost about half the field. 15k starting stack, blinds getting bigger.. nobody really has many bets. Villain had about 60k to start the hand.
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Old Yesterday, 05:10 AM   #7
leavesofliberty
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Re: LHE hand in HORSE tournament

This is the best prospect you'll see for your chips.
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Old Yesterday, 02:57 PM   #8
Frankie Fuzz
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Re: LHE hand in HORSE tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by SetofJacks View Post
With such a short stack my inkling is to just fold preflop.
I have limited experience in tournaments, but I really can't see any reason why you'd consider folding here. I understand that in no limit tournaments there could be reasons to forego immediate EV to wait for better spots later where our opponents will make larger mistakes. But this is limit holdem. Folding 76o in the BB vs an SB open would be a pretty large mistake EV wise, probably much bigger than the mistakes our opponents will make in later hands against us. I guess I could imagine a scenario where our opponents are INCREDIBLY tight and we would rather save a small bet to give us more leverage pre flop or on the flop in a later hand...but this seems like a stretch to me.
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Old Yesterday, 05:33 PM   #9
SetofJacks
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Re: LHE hand in HORSE tournament

We have no intrinsic showdown value and we're basically all-in bound if we defend and see anything that remotely connects.
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Old Yesterday, 05:40 PM   #10
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Re: LHE hand in HORSE tournament

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Originally Posted by PaulValente View Post
NH
really? I have almost no experience in limit tourneys but this hand looks ridiculous to me. You are a respected poster so if this really is a good hand in your opinion, can you explain why?
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Old Yesterday, 08:01 PM   #11
leavesofliberty
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Re: LHE hand in HORSE tournament

The only problem is that a short stack like that has almost no fold equity in practice. So, I think folding pre is reasonable to preserve, and hit a hand worthy of going all-in with before the blinds hit you again. It's not worth peeling the flop, and then folding, because you're doubling up one less bet with your "free hands". So, it's either fold pre, or go for it here, which IMHO is a very read dependent situation (though I always seem to say that, fwiw).

Do you really have fold equity? Do you really? So many players just want to go home with the short stack, and people re-act by calling down w/ the king high, etc. That's my only hang-up about this hand.
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Old Yesterday, 10:20 PM   #12
monikrazy
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Re: LHE hand in HORSE tournament

I've never played a limit hold em tournament but this seems like a great hand to discuss. I'm not clear on how much FE our cr should really have and would consider calling and leading (all?) most turns as a reasonable alternative that leaves us with a strong range given our stack size.
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Old Today, 11:20 AM   #13
WileyQuixote
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Re: LHE hand in HORSE tournament

I expected him to fold most flops, but perhaps that was a little shortsighted.

Given how the hand played out, he's probably calling a much wider range than I anticipated.

Anyways, playing day 2 of binions $585 HORSE championship today. Wish me luck
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Old Today, 06:14 PM   #14
Michael Davis
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Re: LHE hand in HORSE tournament

With 2.75 bets (is this right?), it's not true that we have no fold equity. Calling preflop and calling the flop, he should see you as committed and give up with some hands on the turn.

I would not raise the flop because I think calling the flop is likelier to get folds, but I might be wrong on this, the flop is really your only chance to take an aggressive action with fold equity unless your opponent checks.

Threebetting preflop would have been a disaster. I want to keep the pot as small as possible at every opportunity to increase the chance I can take it down with a turn bet.
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