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Old 04-25-2017, 04:24 PM   #1
DonkeyOnTilt
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I did a stupid gambool now I'm in a spot.

Live 20.

I'm in the BB facing a button open from the worst player at the table. He is loose pre and post and likes to gamble. The small blind is very tight and very passive which if I say that about you, it means something. SB calls and I decide to do something stupid and call dark. Flop comes 974 rainbow and SB checks. I know button will bet so I check without looking. Oops, he checks behind and we go to the turn. Its and offsuit Q and SB checks. I decide it's probably time to look and I peek down to see 74 off suit. I bet and the button Folds. The small blind now check raises.

2 questions how bad is this dark play from an expected value perspective and is this a super easy three bed or should we be concerned about the tight small blinds check raising range?



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Old 04-25-2017, 04:51 PM   #2
SetofJacks
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Re: I did a stupid gambool now I'm in a spot.

If I knew who you were talking about I could give better advice, but given your read that SB is tight and passive I would not 3-bet, just call down. You have bottom two pair.

Also never call dark. Even in a scenario where you would at least call any two cards (say, there's a raise and 5 coldcallers so you're never folding your big blind), you should at least look at your cards to see if you want to 3-ball it.

Also holy **** I looked at Bravo and apparently it's super busy already, I can't wait to head down there. I bet that game is spectacular.
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Old 04-25-2017, 05:00 PM   #3
shpanko
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Re: I did a stupid gambool now I'm in a spot.

Sounds like SB pretty much never has two pair given his tightness so we're putting him on a exactly a set? I'm assuming he 3b QQ so we're putting him on exactly 99 then? Giving a range of reasonable Qx hands and 99 seems like a 3b is printing money imo
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Old 04-25-2017, 06:00 PM   #4
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Re: I did a stupid gambool now I'm in a spot.

I think its closer to a fold than a 3 bet. Not that I would fold. Id call down but 3 betting seems insane. Looks like either a bluff or a set or maybe q9 suited. I guess you could maybe raise/fold safe rivers in case he has a naked queen, but if he really is passive that doesnt really add up with the turn check raise. I rarely see tight/passive players put in two bets on the big streets without 2 pair or better.
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Old 04-25-2017, 07:05 PM   #5
Jon_locke
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Re: I did a stupid gambool now I'm in a spot.

I think it's a pretty easy 3 bet. Calling dark obviously bad since some hands you want to fold
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Old 04-25-2017, 07:08 PM   #6
DonkeyOnTilt
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Re: I did a stupid gambool now I'm in a spot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shpanko View Post
Sounds like SB pretty much never has two pair given his tightness so we're putting him on a exactly a set? I'm assuming he 3b QQ so we're putting him on exactly 99 then? Giving a range of reasonable Qx hands and 99 seems like a 3b is printing money imo
I guess I should put in the qualifier that he is tight and passive for the Canterbury 20 which skews towards the loose and aggressive side. He is just a standard tagfish like myself though I would never have completed SB with anything I intended to play against this particular villain. I think that was a mistake regardless of his holding but he was probably thinking I'd play my hand normally and not dark until the turn.
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Old 04-25-2017, 07:28 PM   #7
Duesseltaler
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Re: I did a stupid gambool now I'm in a spot.

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Originally Posted by Like View Post
I think its closer to a fold than a 3 bet. Not that I would fold. Id call down but 3 betting seems insane. Looks like either a bluff or a set or maybe q9 suited. I guess you could maybe raise/fold safe rivers in case he has a naked queen, but if he really is passive that doesnt really add up with the turn check raise. I rarely see tight/passive players put in two bets on the big streets without 2 pair or better.
made my day man. lots of new accounts popping up posting **** lately?!


@op

easy 3bet
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Old 04-25-2017, 10:44 PM   #8
asmitty
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Re: I did a stupid gambool now I'm in a spot.

You should definitely 3bet, especially if villain knows you played the first two streets dark. Does SB have a 3betting range PF?
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Old 04-26-2017, 12:25 AM   #9
OnTheRail15
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Re: I did a stupid gambool now I'm in a spot.

I'd call and raise the river.
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Old 04-26-2017, 12:30 AM   #10
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Re: I did a stupid gambool now I'm in a spot.

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I'd call and raise the river.
I feel like you are in my head often.

edit: LATB limit on may 10th, btw
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Old 04-26-2017, 01:20 AM   #11
monikrazy
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Re: I did a stupid gambool now I'm in a spot.

I'm just calling the turn as played without knowing more about villain postflop tendencies, xr on the turn is a real strong line and if villain isn't regularly taking this line with kk/aa i don't think we have much of a range advantage - similarly seems like a bad line to take with q - good kicker

If sb is as tight as you say he really doesn't have any 2 pair combinations, 3b sounds like borderline spew
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Old 04-26-2017, 03:02 AM   #12
steveistheman84
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Re: I did a stupid gambool now I'm in a spot.

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I'd call and raise the river.
+1
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Old 04-26-2017, 04:52 AM   #13
DonkeyOnTilt
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Re: I did a stupid gambool now I'm in a spot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avoidthe9to5 View Post
I feel like you are in my head often.

edit: LATB limit on may 10th, btw
I've had a seat locked for a bit. You better light me up. I need free coaching. Beers on me.
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Old 04-26-2017, 06:01 AM   #14
DonkeyOnTilt
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Re: I did a stupid gambool now I'm in a spot.

Also after reading replies and not be caught up in the moment of having a dumb play turn into 2 pair, against this particular villain I think it's a clear call and 3 bet is spew.

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Old 04-26-2017, 09:30 AM   #15
PaulValente
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Re: I did a stupid gambool now I'm in a spot.

I wouldn't 3b but I may raise a blank river.
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Old 04-26-2017, 09:57 AM   #16
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Re: I did a stupid gambool now I'm in a spot.

Ya, justifying three betting against a nit here because "he doesn't have that many combos" is missing the other half of the equation: what the hell is a nit check raising the turn with?

I'm pretty much expecting to see either a set or strong top pair, and we have to discount the latter a bit (since it involves a nit check raising a big street with one pair). Folding is lol-absurd weak, so that leaves one option.
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Old 04-26-2017, 11:20 AM   #17
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Re: I did a stupid gambool now I'm in a spot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avoidthe9to5 View Post
I feel like you are in my head often.

edit: LATB limit on may 10th, btw
20 or 40? I may be in town.
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Old 04-26-2017, 11:23 AM   #18
dadjoey
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Re: I did a stupid gambool now I'm in a spot.

Call down and expect to win a majority of the time. You're behind sets, 97, and Q9, but ahead of all of villain's one pair combos. Hard to envision nitty mcnitty calling a 3-bet and river unimproved with worse than one pair.
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Old 04-29-2017, 06:10 PM   #19
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Re: I did a stupid gambool now I'm in a spot.

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Originally Posted by Duesseltaler View Post
made my day man. lots of new accounts popping up posting **** lately?!


@op

easy 3bet
uhhh wat.

Its absolutely not an easy 3bet, as evidenced by the more respected posters here agreeing with me.

Made MY day though, man. Lots of new accts popping up posting **** lately!?
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Old 04-29-2017, 06:21 PM   #20
chinamaniac
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Re: I did a stupid gambool now I'm in a spot.

Never ever 3 betting
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Old 04-30-2017, 01:35 AM   #21
Omahaisbetter
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Re: I did a stupid gambool now I'm in a spot.

Raising dark and betting flop dark is better. Seems fairly obvious villain has a set not sure why it can only be 9s easily 44 or 77 hoping to trap initial raiser but getting you instead. Very rarely Q9 which still beats you and once in a blue moon AQ which I don't think raises this turn but surely raises pre??
There are many players in limit where you can compress their hand ranges when they raise turn or river to Very strong hands only. The great thing about limit is you compile so much more info on your opponents thru seeing more showdown hands you can make stronger reads. If villain is super nit you claim fairly easy fold against average or tricky opponent just call turn/river
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Old 04-30-2017, 07:10 AM   #22
samdash
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Re: I did a stupid gambool now I'm in a spot.

Calling down to raise the river seems correct here against all but the most passive. Even a passive player might C/R turn here with KQ or QJ. AQ seems totally possible, then you have to consider an oddly played AA or KK. Remember that the SB has incentive to check entire range on the turn vs. the crazy player. Then crazy folds so he has an easy C/R for value. 3-betting the turn would be OK but it seems more strategically sound to delay until the river, first making sure you don't get counterfeited.
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Old 04-30-2017, 07:18 AM   #23
Mr.DjiSamSoe
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Re: I did a stupid gambool now I'm in a spot.

3 bet and jam the river 👍
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Old 05-08-2017, 03:20 AM   #24
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Re: I did a stupid gambool now I'm in a spot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chinamaniac View Post
Never ever 3 betting
Neither am I. This is the worst of two pair. I think about raising the river, but I probably just call. If I raise the river, I am folding to a 3-bet.
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