40/80 game at a socal casino. I sit down and post a bb T T 7h

UTG R
UTG+1 3B
MP 3 to the face.
CO fold
BTN fold
SB fold
Me I call

A58

I check, UTG check, UTG +1 bet, MP fold, I call, UTG call

T
Greedy trying to cr field?

I'd cap pre; there's times when I'd never cap the BB BTN -4 open, BTN -3 3 bet, BTN -2 c3c isn't one of them.

As played, I don't see why we shouldn't think we've the best hand a lot of the time when +1 bets turn, and why he wouldn't. So sure, go ahead and xr.

Absent reads that the ranges of the raiser and 3-bettor are very tight, I cap pre-.

And yes, x/r the turn. There's no particular reason to think that UTG+1 is going to check back the turn, and donking also is incredibly unbalanced here.

Greedy cr seems very standard

Is TT really that great to play OOP vs 2 guys EP that raise and 3bet pf FR ?

I am really doubtful about this.
You are either crush or coin flip with tons of overcard that would make you fold the best hand a lot of the time imo

I'd Bet. No guarantee a bet goes in and I'm not super excited about 3 going in

+1, i mean if its get check trough its a disaster imo and for the unbalance thing i agree, but it is such a confusing bet in this spot i guess it is impossible to exploit it anyway.

- live 40/80 players, IME, raise and three bet too much preflop
- live California players, from what I've gathered on here, raise and three bet too much preflop
- live players in general barrel turn way too much

Everything suggests we cap pre. Everything also suggests that someone has an ace and will bet turn. Even if we run into a flush, getting three bet 3-4 ways is pretty cheap.

W/R/T "being crushed or coinflip": totally untrue. Even if I give the two villains tighter ranges than I'm used to seeing, TT has 38% equity. In practice, it usually has much more as people show up w/ unexpected stuff in their raising and 3 betting ranges constantly. Plus, pairs play decent out of position postflop, relatively speaking, so I don't think we'll be forced to fold the winner all that often (yes sometimes UTG will raise to "see where he's at" on J92 with A9 and +1 will three town a combo draw and you'll fold the eventual winner, but really, if you're folding, it's probably because there's two ranks J or higher on board and no T).

"It's tough to play" isn't a good reason to not cap when there's value (a good reason is: I don't cap anything in the BB here because I want to play a few more hands and protect them with strong hands in my range). You'd cap AKo all day, right? Well AKo's equity isn't that much better than TT, and that's pretty difficult to play OOP when an A or K doesn't fall.

Yeah i know TT is not that bad equity wise but the problem is too being able to play correctly TT each time OOP vs 2 strong range and fulfill your equity till the river.
AK is much easier, when u hit a pair you call down at least, TT is way different because it cannot with stand much action OOP when overcard are present .

You have AK and cap pre. Flop is J92 and UTG raises and +1 3 bets. You?

You have TT and cap pre. Flop is J92 and UTG raises and +1 3 bets. You?

Pretty much the only way what you're saying is true is if we're facing 2 cold a lot post (we aren't) or if the board run out is bad (then it doesn't matter anyway because our equity will be poor). You speak like TT is a recipe for disaster in a capped pot, when in reality we're only folding with significant equity post if our opponents are lunatics or have very specific hands. Most of the time we fold, it's because the board/action will be clearly bad for TT.

Just popping in to say I agree with jdr.
TT is a huge hand and should be 4-bet here.

I don't have a capping range pre. For those that do, I am wondering if you also have a calling range? I feel like if my calling range contains my strongest hands, it allows me to extend the bottom of my playable range a little. I'm not too concerned about the flop checking through and me never recapturing that preflop value because most people just cbet everything 4 ways when they've shown that much preflop strength. So I can almost always get in a flop check raise with my strongest hands.

If you add one more cold caller, now i think having a capping range is superior. I feel the presence of that extra player allows me to expand my range of implied odds type hands so flatting to give myself a stronger overall range is no longer so beneficial. also, in a 5 way pot we have a much better chance of not being able to recapture that preflop value because there's a better chance not everyone will put in a bet on the flop.

My preference is to donk-3b. UTG1 could be the kind of person who cbets 100%, checking turn with KK-.

PF is meh. Flat should be default; raise only if openers are wide and spew.

You realize there's three diamonds on board, right?

I prefer to donk turn also but I would not 3 bet. They prob don't even raise AT

There are 3 combos of KQ/KJ/QJ; 3 combos of AA. There are many more combos of Axd, KKd, AT, other spew that can raise our 'weak' donk.

Except the former group always raises us and the latter group does rarely.

+1

It doesn't look weak, it looks like a monster that didn't cr the flop becusse we didn't want to face anyone with 2 bets or it looks like T8s or TT.

I think it can look like Ax, no diamond, waiting for a safe card to lead turn, and gaining information on UTG.

After the flop action, no one looks that strong (UTG flatted; UTG1 is cbetting; MP folded); , so leading Ax makes a lot of sense.

When I think greedy I think trying to get everyone to toss in one more bet. Not trying to force UTG out of the hand when they're facing 2 cold on the turn with the likely action if you check.

I assume this is Commerce? Just lead into it.

Let's say your right phunk, so what hand here would raise turn knowing that vilain beats a pair of A but not a set of TT ?

Big Ax with diamond. Spewy players with bad Ax with diamond; AK no diamond; KK with diamond; bluffs and air. People can spew with all sorts of junk. Many more combos of those than hands that beat us.

well yeah if you think people can be dumb enough to raise the turn with hands like KdK or AxJd , go ahead and donk 3bet .